1 00:00:24,909 --> 00:00:18,980 [Music] 2 00:00:28,499 --> 00:00:24,919 you're in the para cast the gold 3 00:00:35,049 --> 00:00:28,509 standard of paranormal radio and now 4 00:00:37,719 --> 00:00:35,059 here's gene Steinberg with gene and 5 00:00:40,719 --> 00:00:37,729 Chris we had a fascinating discussion 6 00:00:43,389 --> 00:00:40,729 last week where we talk shop and I made 7 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:43,399 a couple of comments that I suppose 8 00:00:47,649 --> 00:00:45,610 could be construed as partly political 9 00:00:50,890 --> 00:00:47,659 although there were meant to be factual 10 00:00:52,749 --> 00:00:50,900 so we got letters as we do of course you 11 00:00:55,689 --> 00:00:52,759 know the letters are all over the range 12 00:00:59,350 --> 00:00:55,699 some people love us some people hate us 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:00:59,360 some people complain about the ads of 14 00:01:02,350 --> 00:01:00,890 course we can't do anything about the 15 00:01:05,789 --> 00:01:02,360 ants because we're on a regular radio 16 00:01:08,980 --> 00:01:05,799 network regardless the point being that 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:08,990 people have all sorts of opinions and 18 00:01:14,170 --> 00:01:11,570 sometimes we want to answer a few of the 19 00:01:16,359 --> 00:01:14,180 comments so last week I mentioned for 20 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:16,369 example the very simple elementary 21 00:01:22,330 --> 00:01:19,790 definition of the US debt limit which 22 00:01:25,899 --> 00:01:22,340 specifies how much the Treasury combro 23 00:01:29,290 --> 00:01:25,909 to pay its bills it doesn't authorize 24 00:01:32,050 --> 00:01:29,300 new spending so somebody who boasted of 25 00:01:33,789 --> 00:01:32,060 having three or four degrees after his 26 00:01:36,370 --> 00:01:33,799 name sends me a letter saying I don't 27 00:01:38,770 --> 00:01:36,380 know what I'm talking about and goes on 28 00:01:40,780 --> 00:01:38,780 to complain about how the US debt is 29 00:01:42,100 --> 00:01:40,790 going to impact our children our 30 00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:42,110 grandchildren our great-great 31 00:01:48,190 --> 00:01:45,200 grandchildren all that now a point here 32 00:01:51,460 --> 00:01:48,200 is that I wasn't talking about spending 33 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:51,470 or spending priorities I was talking 34 00:01:56,649 --> 00:01:55,070 about the debt ceiling so I said to the 35 00:01:59,530 --> 00:01:56,659 person look if you don't believe me I'll 36 00:02:01,359 --> 00:01:59,540 send you a link go to the US Treasury 37 00:02:04,060 --> 00:02:01,369 site and look at it so he writes back 38 00:02:06,250 --> 00:02:04,070 and says well that sites down because of 39 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:06,260 the partial government shutdown so I 40 00:02:09,309 --> 00:02:07,729 went to the Treasury site which was 41 00:02:12,339 --> 00:02:09,319 fully functional though not being 42 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:12,349 updated I looked up the words debt limit 43 00:02:16,809 --> 00:02:15,049 and search field and I sent him the link 44 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:16,819 now let me read you a very short 45 00:02:22,570 --> 00:02:19,610 paragraph this is the official United 46 00:02:25,059 --> 00:02:22,580 States Treasury statement on what the 47 00:02:27,670 --> 00:02:25,069 debt limit is this is what they tell you 48 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:27,680 the debt limit is the total amount of 49 00:02:31,990 --> 00:02:29,930 money that the United States government 50 00:02:35,230 --> 00:02:32,000 is authorized to bar 51 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:35,240 to meet its existing legal obligations 52 00:02:41,290 --> 00:02:38,510 including Social Security and Medicare 53 00:02:43,990 --> 00:02:41,300 benefits military salaries interests on 54 00:02:46,270 --> 00:02:44,000 the national debt tax refunds and other 55 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:46,280 payments the debt limit does not 56 00:02:52,060 --> 00:02:49,850 authorize new spending commitments it 57 00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:52,070 simply allows the government to finance 58 00:02:56,470 --> 00:02:54,560 existing legal obligations that 59 00:02:59,920 --> 00:02:56,480 Congress's and presidents of both 60 00:03:02,260 --> 00:02:59,930 parties have made in the past in other 61 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:02,270 words it's about paying your bills not 62 00:03:08,050 --> 00:03:04,970 authorizing new spending on debt service 63 00:03:09,610 --> 00:03:08,060 - I mean we've sure we've got a lot of 64 00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:09,620 money that we have to pay out just to 65 00:03:13,540 --> 00:03:12,110 service the the interest on the debt of 66 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:13,550 course but that's part of what I said 67 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:16,370 exactly but you want to deal with the 68 00:03:20,830 --> 00:03:19,130 debt it's a matter of spending and tax 69 00:03:23,740 --> 00:03:20,840 policy and we're not getting into that 70 00:03:26,490 --> 00:03:23,750 stuff we're just talking about a simple 71 00:03:30,190 --> 00:03:26,500 set of facts nothing more nothing less 72 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:30,200 the US Constitution says the US 73 00:03:33,970 --> 00:03:32,450 government will pay its bills what's 74 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:33,980 gonna happen I have no idea because 75 00:03:40,990 --> 00:03:36,970 we're doing this on Tuesday the 76 00:03:43,539 --> 00:03:41,000 expiration date to cover the debt is 77 00:03:46,990 --> 00:03:43,549 Thursday you will hear the show on 78 00:03:49,449 --> 00:03:47,000 Sunday so we don't know what kind of 79 00:03:51,009 --> 00:03:49,459 country we'll be living in by Sunday you 80 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:51,019 know this would say you're faulting on 81 00:03:55,660 --> 00:03:53,110 your credit card well then I'm not 82 00:03:58,390 --> 00:03:55,670 unfamiliar with but not because I 83 00:04:01,090 --> 00:03:58,400 intended to but that's it do you feel 84 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:01,100 you should default on your credit card 85 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:03,530 in any case I do have a very minor 86 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:04,930 announcement to make 87 00:04:10,270 --> 00:04:07,190 apparently we're going to be heard in 88 00:04:13,330 --> 00:04:10,280 Montana there's a Montana station is 89 00:04:16,539 --> 00:04:13,340 picking up the para cast as of this 90 00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:16,549 month yeah our new listeners in Great 91 00:04:25,420 --> 00:04:21,430 Falls that's right k i NX Great Falls 92 00:04:28,390 --> 00:04:25,430 Montana right cascade County it was the 93 00:04:30,610 --> 00:04:28,400 epicenter of the Montana cattle 94 00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:30,620 mutilation wave of seventy six seven and 95 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:33,350 eight ah-hah well it's a certainly an 96 00:04:39,790 --> 00:04:35,930 interesting place then I've never been 97 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:39,800 to Montana sorry man yeah no you're not 98 00:04:43,659 --> 00:04:42,770 gonna raise a get a dental floss ranch 99 00:04:46,250 --> 00:04:43,669 and raise 100 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:46,260 dental floss like in the Franks 101 00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:49,850 a song moving to Montana oh yes I 102 00:04:57,260 --> 00:04:54,000 remember Frank Zappa when he released a 103 00:05:00,620 --> 00:04:57,270 record in the 1960s who are the brain 104 00:05:03,410 --> 00:05:00,630 police yeah what would you do with the 105 00:05:06,620 --> 00:05:03,420 people you knew where the plastic that 106 00:05:10,630 --> 00:05:06,630 melted in the chromium - do you remember 107 00:05:12,890 --> 00:05:10,640 that it's a little obscure gene 108 00:05:15,170 --> 00:05:12,900 overnight sensation is about where I 109 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:15,180 really started to dial in on the Uncle 110 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:15,570 Frank 111 00:05:23,090 --> 00:05:19,530 I remember Suzy cream-cheese Suzy cream 112 00:05:26,090 --> 00:05:23,100 cheese and cream cheese cream cheese yep 113 00:05:29,630 --> 00:05:26,100 and watch out where the Huskies go don't 114 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:29,640 you eat yellow snow you got the texture 115 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:32,490 there you know it's flowin a D from the 116 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:34,710 group the turtles for a while we're part 117 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:36,330 of the Mothers of Invention with Frank 118 00:05:41,090 --> 00:05:39,050 Zappa you know 200 motels 119 00:05:44,180 --> 00:05:41,100 all right we're bringing back the past 120 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:44,190 hear the history of music and maybe 121 00:05:48,530 --> 00:05:45,810 that's another radio show we should do 122 00:05:50,690 --> 00:05:48,540 sometime but not today anyway you get 123 00:05:52,490 --> 00:05:50,700 the point we're not a political show but 124 00:05:56,140 --> 00:05:52,500 sometimes we have to get into it there's 125 00:06:02,750 --> 00:05:56,150 a guy now who was advertising a book 126 00:06:06,770 --> 00:06:02,760 where he suggests that the assassination 127 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:06,780 of JFK was really the fault of Lyndon 128 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:10,170 Johnson which is not an unusual theory 129 00:06:15,050 --> 00:06:12,390 by the way because when you look for the 130 00:06:18,590 --> 00:06:15,060 guilty party of any crime you suggest 131 00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:18,600 who benefits the most from it and 132 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:21,720 obviously the vice president obviously 133 00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:25,490 it happened in Texas which is where was 134 00:06:33,140 --> 00:06:29,960 LBJ stamping grounds but I don't know 135 00:06:36,890 --> 00:06:33,150 the problem with all these conspiracies 136 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:36,900 is that no matter what they say they 137 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:39,990 can't prove a thing we can talk about it 138 00:06:46,490 --> 00:06:43,410 till the end of time and there's not an 139 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:46,500 iota of proof are you much into JFK 140 00:06:53,390 --> 00:06:50,250 conspiracies Chris um you know I have 141 00:06:57,220 --> 00:06:53,400 kind of a peripheral fascination with it 142 00:06:59,710 --> 00:06:57,230 you know I'm not Jim Marrs or 143 00:07:02,080 --> 00:06:59,720 someone that's really dug into it and 144 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:02,090 and knows all the ins and outs it is a 145 00:07:08,860 --> 00:07:06,290 fascinating topic it was obviously quite 146 00:07:13,570 --> 00:07:08,870 the the shift that occurred in culture 147 00:07:16,270 --> 00:07:13,580 was was was amazing in its intensity and 148 00:07:19,630 --> 00:07:16,280 they paved the way for you know a whole 149 00:07:22,420 --> 00:07:19,640 I think baby boomer 150 00:07:24,610 --> 00:07:22,430 explosion of alternative thinking and 151 00:07:27,070 --> 00:07:24,620 and it really set the stage for the 152 00:07:30,220 --> 00:07:27,080 sixties no question in terms of 153 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:30,230 conspiracy theory so I think my personal 154 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:32,510 feeling is he was doomed that day I 155 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:34,250 think there were three different people 156 00:07:38,260 --> 00:07:36,410 that were gonna try to take him out 157 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:38,270 there and and probably none of them knew 158 00:07:44,290 --> 00:07:40,490 the others were there and much to the 159 00:07:45,850 --> 00:07:44,300 horror of the onlookers you know it 160 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:45,860 could have been a a multi-headed Hydra 161 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:48,290 that had him in his sights that day I 162 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:51,110 think it's it's it's gone to the point 163 00:07:55,660 --> 00:07:52,910 where it's almost a paranormal event 164 00:07:57,190 --> 00:07:55,670 within the culture it's it's just it's 165 00:07:59,140 --> 00:07:57,200 like Roswell it's just one of those 166 00:08:02,110 --> 00:07:59,150 things that it's just gonna be sitting 167 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:02,120 there and books will be written and in 168 00:08:06,910 --> 00:08:03,860 movies and documentaries will be made 169 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:06,920 from now until the end of time I I just 170 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:11,740 it has that that huge kind of like super 171 00:08:18,550 --> 00:08:15,410 supercharged mean quality to it if the 172 00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:18,560 truth is ever going to come out it 173 00:08:22,690 --> 00:08:20,560 probably won't be in our lifetimes and 174 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:22,700 therefore we'll have less of an effect 175 00:08:29,830 --> 00:08:26,290 okay you said three different groups 176 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:29,840 number one being organized crime am i 177 00:08:36,130 --> 00:08:32,650 correct right number two being 178 00:08:38,770 --> 00:08:36,140 intelligence agents or even j edgar 179 00:08:41,460 --> 00:08:38,780 Hoover who hated the Kennedys number 180 00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:41,470 three being LBJ is there a number four 181 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:45,230 well I mean you have the Cubans who 182 00:08:50,470 --> 00:08:48,290 could have possibly been involved in in 183 00:08:52,450 --> 00:08:50,480 any one of those three scenarios that 184 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:52,460 you mentioned you know operation 185 00:08:58,750 --> 00:08:55,370 Mongoose David Ferrie and his 186 00:09:00,430 --> 00:08:58,760 involvement and of course Clay Shaw the 187 00:09:03,130 --> 00:09:00,440 only person actually ever charged with 188 00:09:06,190 --> 00:09:03,140 aiding and abetting the assassination 189 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:06,200 plot so I just think it's one of those 190 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:07,760 imponderables where we're never gonna 191 00:09:12,169 --> 00:09:10,290 get any closer I think unless 192 00:09:14,329 --> 00:09:12,179 unless some smoking gun evidence comes 193 00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:14,339 out of course we all know that the 194 00:09:18,859 --> 00:09:16,769 Warren Commission was was was pretty 195 00:09:22,719 --> 00:09:18,869 much a whitewash just like the 9/11 196 00:09:26,989 --> 00:09:22,729 Commission was in mine in my opinion and 197 00:09:30,139 --> 00:09:26,999 I think once some will crucial files are 198 00:09:33,019 --> 00:09:30,149 unsealed the location of Kennedy's brain 199 00:09:34,729 --> 00:09:33,029 for instance you know how they did an 200 00:09:37,999 --> 00:09:34,739 autopsy with someone that never did one 201 00:09:40,489 --> 00:09:38,009 before it's just there's so much about 202 00:09:42,829 --> 00:09:40,499 the the the whole scenario that just 203 00:09:44,869 --> 00:09:42,839 doesn't wash discussions will never end 204 00:09:47,359 --> 00:09:44,879 no but we'll start a new one now we have 205 00:09:49,729 --> 00:09:47,369 Jerome Clark longtime UFO investigator 206 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:49,739 and historian joining us this week all 207 00:10:01,939 --> 00:09:58,809 [Music] 208 00:10:05,419 --> 00:10:01,949 neighbors are you tired of dealing with 209 00:10:08,599 --> 00:10:05,429 a slow web hosting provider well check 210 00:10:11,599 --> 00:10:08,609 out a to hosting and they're screaming 211 00:10:14,869 --> 00:10:11,609 fast Swift server platform they even 212 00:10:17,139 --> 00:10:14,879 have SSDs that load pages three 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00:11:01,999 --> 00:11:00,239 gene when you check out gold isn't for 228 00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:02,009 you today Anderson president of Midas 229 00:11:05,749 --> 00:11:03,839 resources one of the world's premier 230 00:11:07,879 --> 00:11:05,759 gold and precious metal investing firms 231 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:07,889 I get it you wouldn't buy gold if you 232 00:11:11,869 --> 00:11:09,689 believed that the government is doing a 233 00:11:13,549 --> 00:11:11,879 great job that the Fed will stop handing 234 00:11:15,439 --> 00:11:13,559 out trillions of dollars like bail out 235 00:11:16,939 --> 00:11:15,449 candy that Social Security would be 236 00:11:17,419 --> 00:11:16,949 there for you that's not what's 237 00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:17,429 happening 238 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:19,649 you might even pass on gold if the 239 00:11:23,199 --> 00:11:21,170 stimulus package wouldn't 240 00:11:25,119 --> 00:11:23,209 inflation or that the dollar wouldn't 241 00:11:27,669 --> 00:11:25,129 lose value or that your retirement will 242 00:11:29,710 --> 00:11:27,679 be secure if all looks rosy to you then 243 00:11:31,210 --> 00:11:29,720 now is not the time to buy goal for the 244 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:31,220 realists there have never been more 245 00:11:36,099 --> 00:11:33,410 sobering reasons to diversify with goal 246 00:11:38,829 --> 00:11:36,109 since 2001 the US Dollar Index has 247 00:11:40,389 --> 00:11:38,839 tanked 30% while gold has risen three 248 00:11:42,099 --> 00:11:40,399 hundred percent right now savvy 249 00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:42,109 investors are adding gold to their 250 00:11:46,329 --> 00:11:44,480 portfolios you should to find out what 251 00:11:48,369 --> 00:11:46,339 they know call us and I'll send you 10 252 00:11:50,379 --> 00:11:48,379 reasons why gold will do very well three 253 00:11:52,659 --> 00:11:50,389 eight hundred six eight six two two 254 00:11:55,389 --> 00:11:52,669 three seven eight hundred six eight six 255 00:12:02,139 --> 00:11:55,399 two two three seven that's 800 six eight 256 00:12:04,329 --> 00:12:02,149 six two 237 nutritious food is real body 257 00:12:06,999 --> 00:12:04,339 armor it builds muscle burns fat 258 00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:07,009 improves digestion and feeds the entire 259 00:12:11,259 --> 00:12:09,529 body the nutrients it needs did you know 260 00:12:13,179 --> 00:12:11,269 the US government banned the hemp plant 261 00:12:15,309 --> 00:12:13,189 from growing in the United States and 262 00:12:17,169 --> 00:12:15,319 classified it as a Schedule one drug to 263 00:12:18,909 --> 00:12:17,179 hide it behind the marijuana plant 264 00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:18,919 people have been confused about this 265 00:12:23,979 --> 00:12:21,350 plan for over 80 years and many still 266 00:12:26,590 --> 00:12:23,989 don't know what hemp is so now you know 267 00:12:28,689 --> 00:12:26,600 him pits not marijuana and marijuana is 268 00:12:29,889 --> 00:12:28,699 not him they are different varieties of 269 00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:29,899 the same species 270 00:12:34,179 --> 00:12:32,360 hemp USA org wants the world to know 271 00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:34,189 these basic facts and to help people 272 00:12:38,409 --> 00:12:36,350 understand that him protein powder is 273 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:38,419 the best kept health secret you need to 274 00:12:43,239 --> 00:12:40,910 know about remember him protein powder 275 00:12:46,030 --> 00:12:43,249 contains 53 percent protein he's 276 00:12:48,699 --> 00:12:46,040 gluten-free anti inflammatory non GMO 277 00:12:50,650 --> 00:12:48,709 and is loaded with nutrients call eight 278 00:12:52,210 --> 00:12:50,660 eight eight nine one zero four three six 279 00:12:54,460 --> 00:12:52,220 seven eight eight eight nine one zero 280 00:12:56,799 --> 00:12:54,470 four three six seven and see what our 281 00:12:57,780 --> 00:12:56,809 powders seeds and oil can do for you 282 00:13:01,470 --> 00:12:57,790 only 283 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:01,480 in usa.org we all know that murky water 284 00:13:05,490 --> 00:13:03,010 purification systems are the most 285 00:13:07,530 --> 00:13:05,500 trusted name in water filtration as an 286 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:07,540 authorized Berkey dealer for over 6 287 00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:09,250 years in serving thousands of satisfied 288 00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:10,150 customers 289 00:13:14,730 --> 00:13:12,550 the Berkey guy offers amazing specials 290 00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:14,740 for berkey water filtration systems the 291 00:13:18,390 --> 00:13:16,360 Berkey light systems include a set of 292 00:13:20,370 --> 00:13:18,400 self-sterilizing and re cleanable black 293 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:20,380 purification elements that purify water 294 00:13:25,020 --> 00:13:22,810 by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria 295 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:25,030 cysts and parasites to non detectable 296 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:27,250 levels and remove harmful chemicals such 297 00:13:31,140 --> 00:13:29,290 as herbicides and pesticides order the 298 00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:31,150 Berkey light system today complete with 299 00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:33,820 two black per key elements for only 231 300 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:35,590 dollars and the Berkey guy will ship 301 00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:37,360 your order free of charge with the 302 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:39,070 purchase of a Berkey light the Berkey 303 00:13:43,290 --> 00:13:41,110 guy is also offering is set of fluoride 304 00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:43,300 and arsenic filters for only $39.99 305 00:13:46,110 --> 00:13:45,640 that's over 30 percent off the retail 306 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:46,120 price 307 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:48,370 call the Berkey guy at one eight seven 308 00:13:52,770 --> 00:13:50,650 seven eight eight six three six five 309 00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:52,780 three that's one eight seven seven eight 310 00:13:58,140 --> 00:13:55,540 eight six three six five three or order 311 00:14:02,160 --> 00:13:58,150 online at Gober Keep Calm that's Gober 312 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:02,170 Keep Calm today we'd like to hear from 313 00:14:07,650 --> 00:14:04,210 you if you have a comment or question 314 00:14:09,540 --> 00:14:07,660 about the para cast sent it to News at 315 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:09,550 the para cast com 316 00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:12,910 that's news at the para cast calm and 317 00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:14,980 don't forget to visit our famous para 318 00:14:23,130 --> 00:14:18,300 cast community forums at forum dot the 319 00:14:25,650 --> 00:14:23,140 podcast.com i'm happy to bring back an 320 00:14:28,050 --> 00:14:25,660 old and dear friend of mine and he and i 321 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:28,060 are both getting older by the second the 322 00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:30,370 one the only jerome clark Jerry thanks 323 00:14:34,650 --> 00:14:32,590 for joining us on the show well thank 324 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:34,660 you have a meeting I won't talk about 325 00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:36,430 our ages because if you add the two 326 00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:38,860 numbers together they exceed all the 327 00:14:45,660 --> 00:14:42,760 numbers on this planet except for Brad 328 00:14:48,210 --> 00:14:45,670 Steiger who's older right exactly 329 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:48,220 you know before their old friend another 330 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,810 old friend he'll be on the show in a 331 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:52,000 couple of weeks by the way okay Jerry 332 00:14:55,140 --> 00:14:53,530 before we start talking to you I just 333 00:14:57,060 --> 00:14:55,150 wanted to finish up a story I was 334 00:14:59,300 --> 00:14:57,070 telling at the beginning of the show 335 00:15:01,440 --> 00:14:59,310 about somebody who attacked my 336 00:15:03,930 --> 00:15:01,450 interpretation which quotes basically 337 00:15:06,450 --> 00:15:03,940 what the US Treasury says about what the 338 00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,460 debt limit means and I sent him a link 339 00:15:11,250 --> 00:15:08,320 to the Treasury site when you look up 340 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:11,260 the words debt limit he writes back to 341 00:15:14,699 --> 00:15:11,529 me 342 00:15:15,869 --> 00:15:14,709 he says oh you're one of Obama's minions 343 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:15,879 I don't want to listen to the show 344 00:15:20,220 --> 00:15:18,370 anymore and I said well we only want 345 00:15:22,829 --> 00:15:20,230 intelligent people to listen to the show 346 00:15:25,019 --> 00:15:22,839 and maybe in responses where I wrote him 347 00:15:27,540 --> 00:15:25,029 maybe you should just send back your 348 00:15:30,799 --> 00:15:27,550 degrees because you didn't earn them I 349 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:30,809 guess that was insulting wasn't it Jerry 350 00:15:36,239 --> 00:15:33,610 but appropriate under the circumstances 351 00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:36,249 apparently that's an interesting 352 00:15:39,540 --> 00:15:37,809 question it comes to mind and it does 353 00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:39,550 relate to our field of interest and 354 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:42,399 maybe I'll start with expressing 355 00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:44,050 something that we mentioned in our 356 00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:47,110 forums and that is a decision by popular 357 00:15:55,319 --> 00:15:51,279 science magazine to block comments on 358 00:15:58,379 --> 00:15:55,329 their web content because of what 359 00:16:00,720 --> 00:15:58,389 apparently is an anti science brigade 360 00:16:02,759 --> 00:16:00,730 that attacks everything they write so I 361 00:16:04,170 --> 00:16:02,769 guess the question is and it does relate 362 00:16:06,239 --> 00:16:04,180 to the field we're in because we're 363 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:06,249 trying to be scientific about it do you 364 00:16:11,850 --> 00:16:08,610 think there is a growing movement 365 00:16:15,059 --> 00:16:11,860 against science and what it means you 366 00:16:16,970 --> 00:16:15,069 mean in popular culture generally and 367 00:16:19,559 --> 00:16:16,980 the political sphere and ethology 368 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:19,569 anywhere but I think mostly in popular 369 00:16:24,929 --> 00:16:21,850 culture in the political sphere yes I 370 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:24,939 think there's a strong anti science anti 371 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:27,850 empirical evidence continued in the in 372 00:16:33,540 --> 00:16:30,610 the political sphere you know just a 373 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:33,550 growing kind of no nothingness which I 374 00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,730 which I have no sympathy what do you 375 00:16:42,749 --> 00:16:39,040 think brings it about I think that it's 376 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:42,759 that we always see that if you become a 377 00:16:48,269 --> 00:16:45,490 hardcore ideologue and define the world 378 00:16:51,119 --> 00:16:48,279 in terms of rigid ideology whatever it 379 00:16:54,030 --> 00:16:51,129 is whether it's it could be communism or 380 00:16:57,629 --> 00:16:54,040 fascism or some extreme form of right or 381 00:17:00,720 --> 00:16:57,639 left wing perspective and mere facts 382 00:17:04,679 --> 00:17:00,730 don't carry the load for you it's the 383 00:17:06,689 --> 00:17:04,689 facts that go not your ideology so facts 384 00:17:11,329 --> 00:17:06,699 be damned then as far as their pressure 385 00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:11,339 I mean the facts are only there to serve 386 00:17:16,590 --> 00:17:13,809 utilitarian purposes to confirm the 387 00:17:18,510 --> 00:17:16,600 ideology if they contradict the ideology 388 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:18,520 is the facts that are disposable 389 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:23,530 so it's reversing the statement from the 390 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:24,730 late senator Moyna 391 00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:26,650 and that you're entitled to your 392 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:28,990 opinions but not your facts and they're 393 00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:32,530 saying no we're entitled to our opinions 394 00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:36,280 and facts be damned or the facts follow 395 00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:39,100 on facts and scare quotes of course so 396 00:17:43,770 --> 00:17:41,140 when you have you know whole ideology is 397 00:17:47,789 --> 00:17:43,780 based upon denial of climate change or 398 00:17:50,669 --> 00:17:47,799 evolution or whatever you're not dealing 399 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:50,679 with reality and the whole purpose of 400 00:17:56,940 --> 00:17:54,130 politics is to confront real problems 401 00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:56,950 and arrive at solutions for them let's 402 00:18:02,940 --> 00:17:59,200 move them to our little paranormal world 403 00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:02,950 here how do we reconcile the anti 404 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:05,980 science approach to trying to understand 405 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:07,809 what's around us in the mysteries that 406 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:10,090 were confronting well I think that 407 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:12,370 science is crucial to living in this 408 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:14,290 world we live in the world of science 409 00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:17,410 created and to deny the authority of 410 00:18:22,970 --> 00:18:20,350 science is simply to take us away from 411 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:22,980 the real world and be virtus to some 412 00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:26,890 pre-scientific state and if we're going 413 00:18:30,659 --> 00:18:29,230 to revert intellectually to a pre 414 00:18:33,390 --> 00:18:30,669 scientific state we're going to be 415 00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:33,400 living in a pre-scientific state we're 416 00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:34,480 going to be living in a pre 417 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:36,760 technological society in a world that's 418 00:18:42,750 --> 00:18:39,730 dominated by guesswork and superstition 419 00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:42,760 and etiology I prefer to live in a world 420 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:46,660 where facts are empirically true that 421 00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:48,250 they're the things that you arrive at 422 00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:51,280 through investigation analysis research 423 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:53,919 and do you separate the truth and the 424 00:18:58,169 --> 00:18:56,290 falls to the best of your ability and 425 00:19:00,810 --> 00:18:58,179 you put the false aside and proceed with 426 00:19:03,030 --> 00:19:00,820 what you can establish empirically we 427 00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:03,040 shouldn't even have to be saying this in 428 00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:07,510 the year 2013 right good point does that 429 00:19:13,470 --> 00:19:10,150 also explain why in our culture now we 430 00:19:16,409 --> 00:19:13,480 have several popular TV programs that 431 00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:16,419 focus on fairy tales and magic as 432 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:19,110 opposed to reality like the Fox show 433 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:22,330 Sleepy Hollow which brings the Headless 434 00:19:25,409 --> 00:19:24,850 Horseman and Ichabod Crane to the modern 435 00:19:28,860 --> 00:19:25,419 world 436 00:19:31,890 --> 00:19:28,870 Once Upon a Time where the fairy tale 437 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:31,900 characters from the Evil Queen and Snow 438 00:19:37,409 --> 00:19:35,530 White and Peter Pan our existing not 439 00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:37,419 just in our world but they keep going 440 00:19:40,289 --> 00:19:38,080 back to their 441 00:19:41,789 --> 00:19:40,299 chanted forests and never land well I 442 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:41,799 don't really think that has anything to 443 00:19:44,940 --> 00:19:43,330 do is low we're talking about really 444 00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:44,950 because human beings have always had 445 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:48,070 imagination and fantasy and there's 446 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:49,570 nothing wrong with that it's just as 447 00:19:54,990 --> 00:19:52,210 long as they're identified as such by 448 00:19:57,539 --> 00:19:55,000 the way I might add here that about two 449 00:19:59,460 --> 00:19:57,549 or three weeks ago I actually reread for 450 00:20:02,029 --> 00:19:59,470 probably the first time since I was 451 00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:02,039 maybe a junior high school Washington 452 00:20:07,620 --> 00:20:04,240 Irving's story The Legend of Sleepy 453 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:07,630 Hollow which is a wonderful story and it 454 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:11,110 shows that Irving really knew the rural 455 00:20:16,830 --> 00:20:13,480 folklore in the superstitions and the 456 00:20:20,129 --> 00:20:16,840 supernatural beliefs of rural Americans 457 00:20:22,649 --> 00:20:20,139 in the early 19th century and he weaves 458 00:20:24,750 --> 00:20:22,659 is a wonderfully fascinating story 459 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:24,760 around it while getting all the 460 00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,730 folkloric details exactly right it's a 461 00:20:32,220 --> 00:20:30,159 wonderful story and just as wonderfully 462 00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:32,230 entertaining as well of course the 463 00:20:38,669 --> 00:20:35,289 Headless Horseman is a hoax as we learn 464 00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:38,679 and me at the end of the story but it's 465 00:20:44,370 --> 00:20:41,380 just a great story and it's full of you 466 00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:44,380 know authentic folklore content have you 467 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:46,809 actually seen the TV show which is very 468 00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:49,210 very loosely based on that my wife 469 00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:51,460 watches that I just not interested in 470 00:20:55,649 --> 00:20:53,260 fantasy and science fiction much so I 471 00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:55,659 don't watch those shows okay 472 00:20:59,879 --> 00:20:57,370 well that brings up an interesting point 473 00:21:02,129 --> 00:20:59,889 that a lot of people are interested in 474 00:21:03,389 --> 00:21:02,139 fantasy and science fiction and it seems 475 00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:03,399 like we've been seeing a real 476 00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:05,950 I mean marked increase in interest in in 477 00:21:11,370 --> 00:21:08,230 the last few years do you think that 478 00:21:15,090 --> 00:21:11,380 possibly this anti science contingent 479 00:21:18,659 --> 00:21:15,100 and this this sort of movement of denial 480 00:21:21,299 --> 00:21:18,669 basically maybe because science has gone 481 00:21:23,549 --> 00:21:21,309 outwards and we're learning so much and 482 00:21:26,909 --> 00:21:23,559 it's so far removed from the average 483 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:26,919 person's reality that perhaps they're 484 00:21:32,399 --> 00:21:30,490 viewing science as we view fantasy in 485 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:32,409 science fiction that it's almost a 486 00:21:36,990 --> 00:21:34,450 backlash to the stovepiping and ivory 487 00:21:39,539 --> 00:21:37,000 tower nature of cutting-edge modern 488 00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:39,549 science yes I think that's a good point 489 00:21:43,980 --> 00:21:40,960 there's something to that there was a 490 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:43,990 time when when your average educated 491 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:46,690 reasonably intelligent citizen could 492 00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:49,210 understand what science was doing and 493 00:21:53,850 --> 00:21:51,760 what it was about and there were 494 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:53,860 amateur scientists amateur naturalist 495 00:21:59,520 --> 00:21:56,370 who made contributions to the body of 496 00:22:01,020 --> 00:21:59,530 scientific knowledge but it's not an 497 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:01,030 amateurs game anymore 498 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:03,610 it's a highly professional eyes highly 499 00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:06,610 technical highly mathematical and it's 500 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:11,380 way beyond most of us and and as we grow 501 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:13,510 our way toward a fuller understanding of 502 00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:15,310 nature in the universe is just going to 503 00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:17,230 get more complicated and it's going to 504 00:22:21,690 --> 00:22:19,270 leave the average person farther and 505 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:21,700 farther behind it's also a highly 506 00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:24,310 specialized as well oh absolutely it's 507 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:26,710 often said that even physicists can't 508 00:22:31,770 --> 00:22:28,690 speak to each other intelligibly across 509 00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:31,780 sub disciplines within physics we have 510 00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:33,760 to speak intelligently about this folks 511 00:22:37,470 --> 00:22:35,230 and we'll be back in a moment with 512 00:22:40,170 --> 00:22:37,480 Jerome Clark joining Jean and Chris 513 00:22:48,979 --> 00:22:40,180 you're in the para cast 514 00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:51,200 America's number one source for 515 00:22:54,599 --> 00:22:53,679 independent talk retail for over a 516 00:22:59,729 --> 00:22:54,609 decade 517 00:23:02,159 --> 00:22:59,739 we are the gcn radio network if you want 518 00:23:05,099 --> 00:23:02,169 to get your website online and you need 519 00:23:07,019 --> 00:23:05,109 reliable service first-class service at 520 00:23:08,999 --> 00:23:07,029 the lowest possible price there's only 521 00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:09,009 one place to go well dream house has a 522 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our distant 536 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:45,070 planet are planning to conquer the earth 537 00:23:50,430 --> 00:23:47,710 this is gripping science fiction of the 538 00:23:52,409 --> 00:23:50,440 classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and 539 00:23:55,379 --> 00:23:52,419 the coming of the protectors find out 540 00:24:09,930 --> 00:23:55,389 more at rockets calm that's Rockets are 541 00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:09,940 Ock oids calm those we should be able to 542 00:24:15,090 --> 00:24:12,940 depend on let us down federal and state 543 00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:15,100 and local officials saying help is on 544 00:24:19,619 --> 00:24:16,960 the way while the folks here in Belle 545 00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:19,629 Harbor say show me don't depend on the 546 00:24:23,879 --> 00:24:21,940 government to save you take action now 547 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:23,889 so that you're prepared for the next 548 00:24:30,659 --> 00:24:27,850 disaster with my Patriot supply calm get 549 00:24:33,690 --> 00:24:30,669 the best prices on storable food non GMO 550 00:24:35,820 --> 00:24:33,700 seeds water filtration devices home 551 00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:35,830 canning equipment survival and 552 00:24:41,789 --> 00:24:38,590 self-reliance books and more at my 553 00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:41,799 patriot supply calm calls eight six six 554 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:44,289 two two nine zero nine two seven we are 555 00:24:50,270 --> 00:24:46,850 hurting down here 556 00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:50,280 immediately before it's time to survive 557 00:25:00,080 --> 00:24:54,179 it's time to prepare my Patriots of 558 00:25:02,539 --> 00:25:00,090 flight calm my Patriots supply.com it's 559 00:25:04,610 --> 00:25:02,549 time for a home security quiz what 560 00:25:06,380 --> 00:25:04,620 effective home security device is 561 00:25:08,180 --> 00:25:06,390 smaller than a coffee cup fakes out 562 00:25:10,159 --> 00:25:08,190 burglars into thinking someone is home 563 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:10,169 at your house while you're away plugs 564 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:12,570 into any wall outlet is recommended by 565 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:14,850 many police departments and sells for 566 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:16,890 less than $30 yes 567 00:25:21,740 --> 00:25:19,530 it's fake TV this year about one in 568 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:21,750 every 50 US homes we'll have a break in 569 00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:23,520 with burglars usually picking the easy 570 00:25:28,399 --> 00:25:26,159 target a dark house that looks like no 571 00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:28,409 one is home fake TV is a small 572 00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,510 electronic security device that makes it 573 00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:32,880 look like someone is home watching TV by 574 00:25:37,490 --> 00:25:35,760 simulating the light from a real TV fake 575 00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:37,500 TV could be the difference between 576 00:25:42,140 --> 00:25:39,990 coming home to a secure house or one 577 00:25:45,529 --> 00:25:42,150 that's been ransacked to get your fake 578 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:45,539 TV for only 29.95 with free shipping go 579 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:48,690 to fake tv.com or call one eight seven 580 00:25:53,779 --> 00:25:51,510 seven five fake TV that's eight seven 581 00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:53,789 seven five three two five three eight 582 00:26:00,440 --> 00:25:57,990 eight or go to fake tv.com fake TV the 583 00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:00,450 burglar deterrent normal blood pressure 584 00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:02,640 naturally how would that make you feel 585 00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:05,820 I'm from New Mexico January of 2000 I 586 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:07,679 had a heart attack then my real health 587 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:10,110 began going downhill and I had high 588 00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:12,210 blood pressure high blood sugar and poor 589 00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:14,190 vision and I really wasn't sleeping well 590 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:16,620 I was a mess pretty much Don reports 591 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:17,970 dramatic improvements with heart and 592 00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:20,130 body extract I started taking a heart 593 00:26:24,409 --> 00:26:22,169 and body extract and within a few days I 594 00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:24,419 started sleeping a lot better my blood 595 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:24,960 pressure 596 00:26:29,779 --> 00:26:27,510 normalized my blood sugar normalized and 597 00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:29,789 my sleep really did improve experience 598 00:26:32,930 --> 00:26:31,289 these benefits and more when your body 599 00:26:35,149 --> 00:26:32,940 gets what it needs with the assistance 600 00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:35,159 of heart and body extract order at HB 601 00:26:41,899 --> 00:26:37,830 extract calm or call eight six six two 602 00:26:49,060 --> 00:26:41,909 nine five 5305 that's HB extract calm or 603 00:26:57,090 --> 00:26:53,970 from taking details at HB extract calm 604 00:27:15,840 --> 00:26:57,100 call eight six six two nine five 5305 605 00:27:17,490 --> 00:27:15,850 for heart and body extract with gene and 606 00:27:20,010 --> 00:27:17,500 Chris we have drum Clark joining us this 607 00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:20,020 week and we were talking in our first 608 00:27:24,260 --> 00:27:22,360 segment with him about a so called 609 00:27:27,870 --> 00:27:24,270 anti science movement and the fact that 610 00:27:30,330 --> 00:27:27,880 science has become so obscure and 611 00:27:33,090 --> 00:27:30,340 confusing lots of people they seek maybe 612 00:27:34,650 --> 00:27:33,100 refuge in simpler times and that's true 613 00:27:38,490 --> 00:27:34,660 I guess about political beliefs in 614 00:27:40,919 --> 00:27:38,500 general that society is very confusing 615 00:27:41,610 --> 00:27:40,929 and specialized and what about the good 616 00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:41,620 old days 617 00:27:48,150 --> 00:27:45,760 be like the 1950s I guess so 618 00:27:50,490 --> 00:27:48,160 I'm always interested as a student of 619 00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:50,500 history in the whole concept of the good 620 00:27:55,950 --> 00:27:53,710 old days I'm interested in old songs 621 00:27:58,020 --> 00:27:55,960 folk songs old popular songs and I don't 622 00:28:00,960 --> 00:27:58,030 mean from just a few years ago I mean 623 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:00,970 from decades ago or centuries ago and 624 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:03,490 even in the 19th century and in the 18th 625 00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:06,070 century there were songs reflecting 626 00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:08,830 nostalgically on the times gone by and 627 00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:12,040 how much better they used to be which if 628 00:28:16,350 --> 00:28:13,750 you study that stuff it's a good cure 629 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:16,360 for sentimentality and nostalgia the 630 00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:18,250 good old days or whatever you want them 631 00:28:21,690 --> 00:28:19,630 to be and if you look at them carefully 632 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:21,700 they they may have been old but they 633 00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,010 probably weren't so good I don't 634 00:28:28,590 --> 00:28:26,080 remember them being that good no I don't 635 00:28:30,990 --> 00:28:28,600 either actually I'm you know completely 636 00:28:33,650 --> 00:28:31,000 I'm sentimental about these things but 637 00:28:37,049 --> 00:28:33,660 obviously some people want it that way 638 00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,059 well they're looking back on an America 639 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:39,520 that never was it's just an America of 640 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:42,250 their invention they're usually also 641 00:28:47,850 --> 00:28:44,890 thinking about America where they and 642 00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:47,860 their kind meaning they and their fellow 643 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:50,110 people with white skin were comfortable 644 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:50,710 and ruled 645 00:28:57,169 --> 00:28:53,710 roost and it's not the good old day if 646 00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:57,179 you were not at the top of the hierarchy 647 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:00,640 let's go even more focus to our UFO 648 00:29:06,659 --> 00:29:03,250 paranormal world where I often say that 649 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:06,669 a lot of stuff you hear today in the UFO 650 00:29:09,210 --> 00:29:07,690 research 651 00:29:12,330 --> 00:29:09,220 here's what we were talking about back 652 00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:12,340 in the 1950s and I suppose even some of 653 00:29:18,749 --> 00:29:16,000 the debates and the feuds that continue 654 00:29:21,509 --> 00:29:18,759 aren't so different and I was thinking 655 00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:21,519 here of what Joan Rivers said a number 656 00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:26,769 of times during her skits grow up so why 657 00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:29,529 do the people in the UFO field why do 658 00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:32,230 they have such difficulty getting 659 00:29:37,139 --> 00:29:34,750 together and not feuding all the time 660 00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:37,149 well I don't think they feed any more 661 00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:39,750 often than anybody else does in some 662 00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:43,080 subculture or group you know there are 663 00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,289 branches of science where feuds are 664 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:48,960 legendary 665 00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:51,370 way worse than anything we see in 666 00:29:56,249 --> 00:29:54,190 ufology absolutely I think that it's 667 00:29:58,999 --> 00:29:56,259 just a question of group dynamics and 668 00:30:02,279 --> 00:29:59,009 the way they function and people 669 00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:02,289 fortunately don't all think the same but 670 00:30:06,299 --> 00:30:04,000 that also guarantees that they're going 671 00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:06,309 to get on each other's nerves and and in 672 00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:08,080 particular on your policy you're dealing 673 00:30:13,139 --> 00:30:10,000 with an intractable problem 674 00:30:16,409 --> 00:30:13,149 you know we apologists are way outgunned 675 00:30:20,430 --> 00:30:16,419 we have an enormous lee complex an 676 00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:20,440 enigmatic phenomenon that is well beyond 677 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:22,480 current knowledge even the current 678 00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:25,450 knowledge of the most informed scientist 679 00:30:29,820 --> 00:30:27,190 I think we're dealing with things that 680 00:30:33,749 --> 00:30:29,830 are beyond our present level of 681 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:33,759 knowledge and so here we are a bunch of 682 00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:37,210 amateurs you know working part time with 683 00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:41,129 extraordinarily limited to no resources 684 00:30:48,029 --> 00:30:44,529 just beating our heads against this 685 00:30:50,249 --> 00:30:48,039 problem and really not getting very far 686 00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:50,259 I think we know a few things we didn't 687 00:30:55,379 --> 00:30:54,399 know when we started out but we haven't 688 00:30:58,049 --> 00:30:55,389 solved anything 689 00:31:00,720 --> 00:30:58,059 we haven't made you follow Qi any more 690 00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:00,730 respectable than it was when organized 691 00:31:08,060 --> 00:31:04,960 ethology began in approximately 1950 and 692 00:31:12,690 --> 00:31:08,070 so people just get crazy and I think one 693 00:31:16,109 --> 00:31:12,700 consequence of this is that the focus 694 00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:16,119 becomes ufology becomes about ufologists 695 00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:18,580 and not about the UFO phenomenon because 696 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:20,289 people at least on some unconscious 697 00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,010 level 698 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:23,360 taking out their frustrations on each 699 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:26,570 other so you get periodic lynch mobs 700 00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:28,850 forming they get somebody who's 701 00:31:36,220 --> 00:31:32,480 transgressed in one way or another real 702 00:31:39,779 --> 00:31:36,230 or imaginary and you just get this tires 703 00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:39,789 some kind of personality focused 704 00:31:46,510 --> 00:31:43,750 hysteria and and you get less 705 00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:46,520 intelligent and considered discussion 706 00:31:52,419 --> 00:31:49,070 about the nature of the UFO phenomena 707 00:31:56,380 --> 00:31:52,429 where we might proceed from A to B to C 708 00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:56,390 and it just occurs to me looking at your 709 00:32:01,180 --> 00:31:58,399 full lists for example on the internet 710 00:32:03,639 --> 00:32:01,190 how much of it is about getting somebody 711 00:32:07,570 --> 00:32:03,649 why do we want to get these people 712 00:32:10,899 --> 00:32:07,580 that's a big question what do we feel 713 00:32:16,090 --> 00:32:10,909 they're doing to us to make them the 714 00:32:17,620 --> 00:32:16,100 targets well there's this is I look at 715 00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:17,630 the way you followed you functions I'm 716 00:32:25,779 --> 00:32:22,159 struck by how much debunker rhetoric 717 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:25,789 ufologists have internalized and one 718 00:32:29,710 --> 00:32:27,770 thing that you see played out and nobody 719 00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:29,720 even comments on it but it's incredibly 720 00:32:37,690 --> 00:32:33,049 bizarre when you look at it is did 721 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:37,700 somebody make money at this for example 722 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:40,490 did somebody who is investing in the the 723 00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:43,850 Roselyn example and wrote a book and 724 00:32:51,310 --> 00:32:47,630 made some money on this book that is 725 00:32:56,110 --> 00:32:51,320 used to discredit this person now in any 726 00:32:58,090 --> 00:32:56,120 other area of inquiry if you do a whole 727 00:33:00,220 --> 00:32:58,100 bunch of research investigation 728 00:33:03,159 --> 00:33:00,230 interviews all those things and write a 729 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:03,169 book and get and make some money in it 730 00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:07,929 the issue doesn't even arise and so you 731 00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:12,559 it's like you follow just have to work 732 00:33:19,210 --> 00:33:15,679 for nothing they never can get anything 733 00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:19,220 out of what they're doing or the fact 734 00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:21,919 that somebody made some money on a 735 00:33:27,549 --> 00:33:24,049 project that he worked very hard at is 736 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:27,559 used to discredit it and that's just 737 00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:28,370 crazy 738 00:33:33,070 --> 00:33:30,710 well you're describing jealousy 739 00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:33,080 basically which is a basic human emotion 740 00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:34,830 that unfortunately is 741 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:39,480 rampant in this field yes absolutely 742 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:42,810 and it's just it's boring it wastes time 743 00:33:50,510 --> 00:33:47,370 it wastes energy and resources you know 744 00:33:54,410 --> 00:33:50,520 I have met very very few people in this 745 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:54,420 field no more I'm sure exist in ufology 746 00:34:01,670 --> 00:33:57,410 than any other field who are insincere 747 00:34:04,340 --> 00:34:01,680 charlatans overwhelmingly the people who 748 00:34:06,050 --> 00:34:04,350 labor at this field for for nothing they 749 00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:06,060 certainly don't even get respectability 750 00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:09,600 out of and much less in income they're 751 00:34:18,290 --> 00:34:12,390 all sincere you know some of them are 752 00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:18,300 misguided and have crazy ideas but they 753 00:34:25,070 --> 00:34:22,110 are sincere about it if you want to make 754 00:34:27,410 --> 00:34:25,080 money as a charlatan ufology is not a 755 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:27,420 place to operate there just isn't enough 756 00:34:33,740 --> 00:34:30,690 money here for anybody who who isn't 757 00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:33,750 sincerely engaged in the subject and yet 758 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:37,500 all the time at least once or twice a 759 00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:39,810 year scandal erupts about somebody or 760 00:34:45,530 --> 00:34:42,510 other and how shady he is he doesn't 761 00:34:49,610 --> 00:34:45,540 really believe it I remember my friend 762 00:34:50,630 --> 00:34:49,620 but Hopkins who was really a sincere and 763 00:34:53,870 --> 00:34:50,640 committed guy 764 00:34:56,270 --> 00:34:53,880 and there were all periodically people 765 00:34:58,460 --> 00:34:56,280 would rise up you know debunkers and and 766 00:35:01,730 --> 00:34:58,470 their allies and the apology to say that 767 00:35:04,610 --> 00:35:01,740 that Hopkins was a charlatan 768 00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:04,620 he was just in for the money I you know 769 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:06,630 I hope I've made some money at it but I 770 00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,490 know that he put a lot of his own money 771 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:10,800 into his investigations and I know he 772 00:35:15,140 --> 00:35:13,170 was sincere you can disagree with his 773 00:35:17,930 --> 00:35:15,150 conclusions but you don't have to 774 00:35:22,270 --> 00:35:17,940 question his motives we saw some of that 775 00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:22,280 when this person who had been under 776 00:35:29,140 --> 00:35:26,400 investigation by David Jacobs this 777 00:35:32,270 --> 00:35:29,150 certain woman who lives in New Zealand 778 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:32,280 started lashing out at him and she 779 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:34,290 started up a website designed strictly 780 00:35:39,650 --> 00:35:37,290 to attack him got people in her corner 781 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:39,660 got people to attack Jacobs 782 00:35:47,660 --> 00:35:43,050 and Hopkins together as being some sort 783 00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:47,670 of villains were Devils hurting the UFO 784 00:35:50,839 --> 00:35:48,240 field 785 00:35:53,420 --> 00:35:50,849 and you could never get these people to 786 00:35:56,660 --> 00:35:53,430 have a straight conversation and I tried 787 00:35:59,060 --> 00:35:56,670 I got involved in only to the extent 788 00:36:00,890 --> 00:35:59,070 that I tried to ask for a straight 789 00:36:02,839 --> 00:36:00,900 conversation let's talk about the 790 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:02,849 methods of these people let's look at 791 00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:05,010 the evidence they have accumulated and 792 00:36:11,089 --> 00:36:07,859 the evidence is wrong which it may very 793 00:36:14,089 --> 00:36:11,099 well be let's discard it and move on 794 00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:14,099 but why focus on these people if they're 795 00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:16,260 doing work that should be analyzed and 796 00:36:20,089 --> 00:36:18,270 maybe they made a few mistakes let's 797 00:36:22,970 --> 00:36:20,099 pick up on the work and see what's going 798 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:22,980 on because a lot of people regardless of 799 00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:25,130 what you think about abductions are 800 00:36:29,810 --> 00:36:27,599 experiencing very strange frightening 801 00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:29,820 things that are hurting their lives and 802 00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:31,980 they should get some understanding about 803 00:36:35,420 --> 00:36:34,020 what's going on we're gonna understand 804 00:36:37,310 --> 00:36:35,430 this in a moment because we have Jerome 805 00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:37,320 Clarke joining us with Jean and Chris 806 00:36:48,359 --> 00:36:40,240 you're in the para cast 807 00:36:54,359 --> 00:36:51,209 are you tired of searching for great 808 00:37:01,529 --> 00:36:54,369 talk radio the more important search in 809 00:37:04,529 --> 00:37:01,539 Overland we are the GCM radio network is 810 00:37:06,809 --> 00:37:04,539 there a secret UFO agenda - strange 811 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:06,819 creatures from the darkest corners of 812 00:37:11,930 --> 00:37:09,130 the mind roam the earth is there 813 00:37:15,569 --> 00:37:11,940 evidence for mind control time travel or 814 00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,579 devious government conspiracies find out 815 00:37:20,190 --> 00:37:17,200 the inside scoop on the latest 816 00:37:22,859 --> 00:37:20,200 conspiracies paranormal activity and at 817 00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:22,869 14 phenomena when you subscribe to Tim 818 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:25,359 Beckley's conspiracy girl it's 819 00:37:30,839 --> 00:37:28,210 jam-packed with stories special book and 820 00:37:33,059 --> 00:37:30,849 DVD promotions and the best news it's 821 00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:33,069 absolutely free sent right to your 822 00:37:39,930 --> 00:37:36,190 mailbox plus a bonus free email 823 00:37:42,180 --> 00:37:39,940 newsletter sent out every Friday simply 824 00:37:47,729 --> 00:37:42,190 send an email with your name and address 825 00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:47,739 - mr. UFO at what TV dotnet text mr. 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00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:18,510 [Music] 913 00:41:25,260 --> 00:41:21,700 so of course every year or two there is 914 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:25,270 a villain in the UFO field and I mention 915 00:41:30,810 --> 00:41:28,090 of course but Hopkins and dr. David 916 00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:30,820 Jacobs being victimized by people who 917 00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:34,510 felt their methods were not being 918 00:41:38,730 --> 00:41:36,100 helpful but they couldn't come up with 919 00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:38,740 any new methods that were better so busy 920 00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:40,660 attacking what the people are doing well 921 00:41:45,780 --> 00:41:43,120 give us a better method if people claim 922 00:41:48,330 --> 00:41:45,790 to be abducted by aliens 923 00:41:50,730 --> 00:41:48,340 let's find out what's going on if it's 924 00:41:52,260 --> 00:41:50,740 some other kind of phenomenon which is 925 00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:52,270 something you've mentioned from time to 926 00:41:57,570 --> 00:41:55,750 time Jerry let's understand it I mean 927 00:42:01,260 --> 00:41:57,580 some people are really screwed up by 928 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:01,270 these experiences yes no question about 929 00:42:07,980 --> 00:42:04,930 that I was on a video show some months 930 00:42:11,130 --> 00:42:07,990 ago with somebody who seemed to have a 931 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:11,140 very hard time understanding that people 932 00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:13,240 could have used very different from his 933 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:16,630 own without being dishonest without 934 00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:19,330 being exploited and involved in some 935 00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:22,480 kind of charlatan enterprise and he blew 936 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:24,960 in we were actually talking about 937 00:42:32,460 --> 00:42:28,570 Hopkins and Jacobs and I said you know 938 00:42:34,290 --> 00:42:32,470 these men are or in Budds case you know 939 00:42:37,970 --> 00:42:34,300 he was a friend of mine but Dave still 940 00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:37,980 is and I know for a fact that these guys 941 00:42:44,430 --> 00:42:41,110 arc were sincerely committed to what 942 00:42:46,830 --> 00:42:44,440 they were doing and I don't agree with 943 00:42:49,410 --> 00:42:46,840 their conclusions I agree that there is 944 00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:49,420 an abduction phenomenon and that is 945 00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:52,390 deeply anomalous but I don't necessarily 946 00:42:58,430 --> 00:42:54,160 agree with the conclusions that they 947 00:43:01,710 --> 00:42:58,440 reach beyond that concession to reality 948 00:43:03,690 --> 00:43:01,720 but I just I just really tired of 949 00:43:06,030 --> 00:43:03,700 listening to people telling me that 950 00:43:07,860 --> 00:43:06,040 so-and-so is a crook because he 951 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:07,870 basically because he doesn't agree with 952 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:10,690 me or he made a mistake somewhere along 953 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:13,330 the line in his investigation or his 954 00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:15,970 enthusiasm or whatever I think we have 955 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:18,730 to be terrible to our fellow human 956 00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:20,650 beings more involved in this difficult 957 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:24,160 subject while we have every right to 958 00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:26,290 disagree with them and criticize their 959 00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:29,710 ideas but I think that we just really 960 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:31,270 had better relearned unless 961 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:34,810 it's not personalities well I remember 962 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:37,690 here that one person wrote me at the 963 00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:40,090 time that they had this debate involving 964 00:43:46,170 --> 00:43:43,030 dr. Jacobs saying if I didn't support 965 00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:46,180 his opinion I'd be destroying my radio 966 00:43:51,359 --> 00:43:49,420 career oh that typical right he was 967 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:51,369 saying can you save what's left of your 968 00:43:54,780 --> 00:43:53,410 radio career well I'm looking at the 969 00:43:57,180 --> 00:43:54,790 number of people who visit our site 970 00:43:59,070 --> 00:43:57,190 since then it's about doubled and we're 971 00:44:00,750 --> 00:43:59,080 on some more stations so I guess we're 972 00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:00,760 moving along okay we're not rich and 973 00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:03,550 famous but the show is continuing so I 974 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:05,110 guess my radio career hasn't been 975 00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:07,330 destroyed in fact and this is hot off 976 00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:09,280 the presses I just heard from Adam the 977 00:44:15,930 --> 00:44:11,950 affiliate guy over at GCN telling me 978 00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:15,940 that they've added W e0 and August of 979 00:44:21,930 --> 00:44:18,910 Georgia to the network carrying the 980 00:44:24,270 --> 00:44:21,940 powertest oh well this is something 981 00:44:27,150 --> 00:44:24,280 these guys do they they also want to 982 00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:27,160 tell you who you can associate with and 983 00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:30,460 what you can say and if you don't told 984 00:44:36,270 --> 00:44:33,550 their lines they want to make you so 985 00:44:37,830 --> 00:44:36,280 toxic there's no respectable person 986 00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:37,840 let's feel about anything to do with you 987 00:44:43,050 --> 00:44:41,230 and I've been through that yeah boy let 988 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:43,060 me tell you you know I went through that 989 00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:44,890 as a friend of Hopkins and Jacob so you 990 00:44:49,530 --> 00:44:46,900 were just disgusting and and others too 991 00:44:52,380 --> 00:44:49,540 but dammit I'm going to associate with 992 00:44:54,330 --> 00:44:52,390 who I want to be associated or just 993 00:44:56,670 --> 00:44:54,340 because I might completely disagree with 994 00:44:58,740 --> 00:44:56,680 the person but I like it as a person 995 00:45:01,890 --> 00:44:58,750 I'll choose my own friends and 996 00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:01,900 colleagues and so should all of it yeah 997 00:45:08,070 --> 00:45:05,260 I just really dislike it when you have a 998 00:45:10,830 --> 00:45:08,080 professional disagreement you take a 999 00:45:11,820 --> 00:45:10,840 different objective look at something 1000 00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:11,830 and come up with different conclusions 1001 00:45:17,609 --> 00:45:15,190 and person whose conclusions you're 1002 00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:17,619 opposed to or you know you're not 1003 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:19,359 agreeing with them when they try to 1004 00:45:24,810 --> 00:45:22,090 destroy your reputation they slander you 1005 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:24,820 behind your back they make up stories 1006 00:45:29,010 --> 00:45:27,490 about you to me it just kind of reminds 1007 00:45:30,660 --> 00:45:29,020 me not even of high school it's more of 1008 00:45:33,359 --> 00:45:30,670 like a junior high or middle middle 1009 00:45:36,270 --> 00:45:33,369 school behavior to me it's it's 1010 00:45:37,590 --> 00:45:36,280 ludicrous I mean I agree Jerry I mean 1011 00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:37,600 there's a lot of people in the field 1012 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:39,910 that I do not agree with with their 1013 00:45:44,460 --> 00:45:42,490 particular conclusions but I like them 1014 00:45:45,060 --> 00:45:44,470 as people yeah I think that's something 1015 00:45:47,340 --> 00:45:45,070 that sometime 1016 00:45:49,830 --> 00:45:47,350 gets lost in this field people are so 1017 00:45:54,270 --> 00:45:49,840 attached to their particular theory 1018 00:45:56,310 --> 00:45:54,280 conclusion whatever it is and they have 1019 00:45:58,320 --> 00:45:56,320 blinders on and if you don't agree with 1020 00:46:00,420 --> 00:45:58,330 that you're the enemy and it shouldn't 1021 00:46:02,310 --> 00:46:00,430 be that way I remember back in the early 1022 00:46:04,530 --> 00:46:02,320 days of course we had all those faked 1023 00:46:06,180 --> 00:46:04,540 feuds between Jim Mosely and gray Barker 1024 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:06,190 for example where they were close 1025 00:46:10,590 --> 00:46:08,050 friends but argue with each other in 1026 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:10,600 public just for the heck of it but as I 1027 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:12,850 recall Jim Mosley himself was a very 1028 00:46:17,460 --> 00:46:15,610 inclusive person he associated with lots 1029 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:17,470 of people whom he didn't agree with 1030 00:46:22,530 --> 00:46:19,810 because he liked them personally well 1031 00:46:25,370 --> 00:46:22,540 absolutely I mean I think that we have 1032 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:25,380 to understand that in a slept ik like 1033 00:46:32,780 --> 00:46:29,050 ufology which deals with enormous ly 1034 00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:32,790 complicated and irresolvable problem 1035 00:46:37,050 --> 00:46:35,110 reasonable people are going to come to 1036 00:46:38,820 --> 00:46:37,060 different conclusions now I think we all 1037 00:46:41,070 --> 00:46:38,830 agreed that the that there are also 1038 00:46:43,350 --> 00:46:41,080 irrational conclusions that people come 1039 00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:43,360 to but there's plenty of room for 1040 00:46:50,460 --> 00:46:45,310 disagreement among reasonable people 1041 00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,470 about the nature in the cause that again 1042 00:46:55,970 --> 00:46:53,200 is so obviously true that it's just 1043 00:46:57,990 --> 00:46:55,980 appalling that one has to say that 1044 00:46:59,940 --> 00:46:58,000 unfortunately it continues like for 1045 00:47:02,340 --> 00:46:59,950 example and we're not going to get into 1046 00:47:05,070 --> 00:47:02,350 it extensively there's this debate over 1047 00:47:08,730 --> 00:47:05,080 the so-called Roswell dream team which 1048 00:47:09,390 --> 00:47:08,740 involves Kevin Randle Tom Kerry Donald 1049 00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:09,400 Smith 1050 00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:14,470 Tony Berg alia David Rudy ACK and that 1051 00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:17,110 Canadian researcher Chris Bukowski 1052 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:19,390 chris wachowsky who was by the way 1053 00:47:21,990 --> 00:47:21,130 always one of our great guests when we 1054 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:22,000 bring him on the show really 1055 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:24,250 knowledgeable really nice guy and the 1056 00:47:28,590 --> 00:47:26,170 point is here they have a laudable goal 1057 00:47:30,780 --> 00:47:28,600 there which is try to look at Roswell as 1058 00:47:33,210 --> 00:47:30,790 so-called cold case see if they can come 1059 00:47:36,690 --> 00:47:33,220 up with new information it was a story 1060 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:36,700 about someone having Kodachrome slides 1061 00:47:41,490 --> 00:47:39,010 that may depict what alien bodies or 1062 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:41,500 something I don't know what that's going 1063 00:47:46,290 --> 00:47:44,050 to turn out to be but it did erupted in 1064 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:46,300 some kind of online flame war for a 1065 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:47,170 while I don't know if it's still 1066 00:47:51,780 --> 00:47:49,090 continuing because sometimes it just 1067 00:47:54,330 --> 00:47:51,790 gets so crazy I choose not to watch it 1068 00:47:56,490 --> 00:47:54,340 anymore yeah I'm the same way I remember 1069 00:47:57,850 --> 00:47:56,500 when that story started slurring a month 1070 00:48:00,970 --> 00:47:57,860 or two about that 1071 00:48:03,550 --> 00:48:00,980 oh no not this again and this is when 1072 00:48:06,370 --> 00:48:03,560 they phrase lynch mob pop the mind again 1073 00:48:08,590 --> 00:48:06,380 and it was just much ado about nothing 1074 00:48:13,090 --> 00:48:08,600 and so far it doesn't seem to have 1075 00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:13,100 gotten a lot of energy but it was just 1076 00:48:19,990 --> 00:48:16,100 it looked to me like some perfectly 1077 00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:20,000 honorable guys like Kevin Randall you 1078 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:22,400 know it was kind of in a bind and it may 1079 00:48:26,050 --> 00:48:24,050 have made a mistake but it wasn't 1080 00:48:29,620 --> 00:48:26,060 anything consequential it wasn't 1081 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:29,630 anything worth giving up more than two 1082 00:48:35,500 --> 00:48:32,330 thoughts to it a maximum line well the 1083 00:48:39,310 --> 00:48:35,510 very very fact that the these slides are 1084 00:48:42,610 --> 00:48:39,320 photographs whatever surfaced in a an 1085 00:48:44,770 --> 00:48:42,620 attic I think in Sedona I mean that she 1086 00:48:47,530 --> 00:48:44,780 give one cause we got watch out about 1087 00:48:50,260 --> 00:48:47,540 those attics in Sedona right Chris well 1088 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:50,270 there's a lot of how would I put this 1089 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:53,210 tactfully there's a lot of delusional 1090 00:48:59,560 --> 00:48:55,970 thinking and lack of thinking in the 1091 00:49:02,590 --> 00:48:59,570 Sedona area hence my moving out so I 1092 00:49:04,750 --> 00:49:02,600 would take anything that's that emerged 1093 00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:04,760 from that particular community with a 1094 00:49:11,050 --> 00:49:08,480 huge block of salt it just as soon as 1095 00:49:13,570 --> 00:49:11,060 the story came out on on that website 1096 00:49:14,650 --> 00:49:13,580 the Reynolds website I just thought oh 1097 00:49:17,110 --> 00:49:14,660 boy here we go 1098 00:49:17,740 --> 00:49:17,120 it's Ray Santilli and Bob caveat all 1099 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:17,750 over again 1100 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:20,570 alien tops autopsy time yeah these 1101 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:22,730 things just never seem to go anywhere I 1102 00:49:27,070 --> 00:49:25,130 have gotten pretty cynical about the 1103 00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:27,080 latest you know astounding revelation 1104 00:49:34,990 --> 00:49:31,250 regarding Roswell and I think that that 1105 00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,000 skepticism is the response of any 1106 00:49:39,970 --> 00:49:37,760 rational observer by this time I mean 1107 00:49:42,250 --> 00:49:39,980 I'm not dismissing anything because 1108 00:49:44,050 --> 00:49:42,260 everything should be investigated it 1109 00:49:46,750 --> 00:49:44,060 looks as if it should be investigated 1110 00:49:48,250 --> 00:49:46,760 but I don't really have much hope that 1111 00:49:50,530 --> 00:49:48,260 there's going to be some astounding 1112 00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:50,540 breakthrough and particularly as you say 1113 00:49:56,350 --> 00:49:53,200 Chris coming out of an attic in Sedona 1114 00:49:59,500 --> 00:49:56,360 the thing of course we could mention in 1115 00:50:02,940 --> 00:49:59,510 a conspiratorial sense is whether these 1116 00:50:05,260 --> 00:50:02,950 eruptions of all this alleged evidence 1117 00:50:07,420 --> 00:50:05,270 that turns out to be nothing 1118 00:50:08,980 --> 00:50:07,430 whether that's influenced by the 1119 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:08,990 powers-that-be who don't want the 1120 00:50:13,549 --> 00:50:10,890 secrets to be known that's certainly one 1121 00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:13,559 to stir up the pot in the way that will 1122 00:50:18,980 --> 00:50:15,420 divert attention from the real thing 1123 00:50:21,710 --> 00:50:18,990 well yeah I mean you know that's that's 1124 00:50:25,370 --> 00:50:21,720 always possible and I don't you know 1125 00:50:26,839 --> 00:50:25,380 dismiss that out of hand but also there 1126 00:50:29,180 --> 00:50:26,849 are just a lot of people are running 1127 00:50:31,130 --> 00:50:29,190 around lying for no apparent reason 1128 00:50:33,710 --> 00:50:31,140 that's one thing that's really struck me 1129 00:50:36,740 --> 00:50:33,720 about the whole Roswell story is is the 1130 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:36,750 all Tober well since about nineteen late 1131 00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:40,170 1970s 1980 that there are all these guys 1132 00:50:45,829 --> 00:50:43,260 who come out of the woodwork and some of 1133 00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:45,839 them are just boldface liars and they 1134 00:50:50,269 --> 00:50:48,089 have lied convincingly with a straight 1135 00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:50,279 face and to all appearances sincerity 1136 00:50:56,059 --> 00:50:52,859 and I think that it were you know wears 1137 00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:56,069 long since at a point that no sensible 1138 00:51:02,839 --> 00:51:00,480 person takes one person's testimony that 1139 00:51:04,910 --> 00:51:02,849 face value of course that raises all 1140 00:51:06,589 --> 00:51:04,920 sorts of other possibilities and may 1141 00:51:09,710 --> 00:51:06,599 just be people want to get in the act 1142 00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:09,720 and say look I'm gonna get my piece of 1143 00:51:14,359 --> 00:51:11,940 the pie here Roswell is lucrative I'm 1144 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:14,369 going to become a Roswell witness Robbie 1145 00:51:17,569 --> 00:51:15,450 a whistleblower 1146 00:51:20,059 --> 00:51:17,579 all that sort of thing or maybe even 1147 00:51:22,970 --> 00:51:20,069 write a best-selling book go on all 1148 00:51:25,759 --> 00:51:22,980 these talk radio and TV shows all the 1149 00:51:27,650 --> 00:51:25,769 glory a lot more to talk about with 1150 00:51:30,340 --> 00:51:27,660 jerome clark joining gene and chris 1151 00:51:38,380 --> 00:51:30,350 you're in the para cast 1152 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:41,830 the GC and radio network providing the 1153 00:51:49,690 --> 00:51:45,050 world with hard-hitting talk radio G C 1154 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:49,700 and great talk radio starts here hi this 1155 00:51:53,830 --> 00:51:51,410 is Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen 1156 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:53,840 to GCN programs on the goal I have great 1157 00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:54,410 news 1158 00:51:58,690 --> 00:51:56,480 gzn 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paranormal mysteries and the 1201 00:54:23,029 --> 00:54:21,930 ongoing discussions so Jerry do you 1202 00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:23,039 think some of these so-called 1203 00:54:27,019 --> 00:54:25,440 whistleblowers who come out of the 1204 00:54:29,299 --> 00:54:27,029 woodwork with some new kind of 1205 00:54:31,609 --> 00:54:29,309 information about Roswell or any other 1206 00:54:33,769 --> 00:54:31,619 case they're in it for the glory 1207 00:54:35,420 --> 00:54:33,779 certainly they might also have the 1208 00:54:37,069 --> 00:54:35,430 illusion that you can actually make 1209 00:54:38,539 --> 00:54:37,079 money from the UFO field what do you 1210 00:54:39,709 --> 00:54:38,549 think yeah I think that's all I'm 1211 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:39,719 actually think they're going to put 1212 00:54:43,579 --> 00:54:41,130 themselves in a position where they can 1213 00:54:46,489 --> 00:54:43,589 get some cash out of their story and of 1214 00:54:48,890 --> 00:54:46,499 course they almost always disappointed 1215 00:54:50,930 --> 00:54:48,900 but I don't know you know it sort of 1216 00:54:52,539 --> 00:54:50,940 reminds me the evolving legends 1217 00:54:54,709 --> 00:54:52,549 associated with the JFK assassination 1218 00:54:56,029 --> 00:54:54,719 you know where you have all kinds of 1219 00:54:59,329 --> 00:54:56,039 people coming out of the woodwork 1220 00:55:03,849 --> 00:54:59,339 telling these great stories that either 1221 00:55:05,989 --> 00:55:03,859 don't go anywhere or can be conclusively 1222 00:55:07,579 --> 00:55:05,999 discounted you know there's one right 1223 00:55:10,459 --> 00:55:07,589 now is a book coming out next month let 1224 00:55:14,029 --> 00:55:10,469 me just interrupt supposedly quoting a 1225 00:55:16,519 --> 00:55:14,039 former mistress of LBJ claiming that he 1226 00:55:20,749 --> 00:55:16,529 admitted to her in kind of a sideways 1227 00:55:24,620 --> 00:55:20,759 way that they finally got JFK and 1228 00:55:26,930 --> 00:55:24,630 therefore LBJ is the person who directed 1229 00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:26,940 the conspiracy to kill him well yeah 1230 00:55:34,279 --> 00:55:31,049 right the whistleblower d'azur yeah I 1231 00:55:36,349 --> 00:55:34,289 mean I think that when something really 1232 00:55:37,999 --> 00:55:36,359 big happens like a presidential 1233 00:55:39,949 --> 00:55:38,009 assassination of the crash of an 1234 00:55:42,259 --> 00:55:39,959 extraterrestrial spaceship at least the 1235 00:55:44,359 --> 00:55:42,269 first one we know happened second one's 1236 00:55:47,529 --> 00:55:44,369 still up for discussion but nonetheless 1237 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:47,539 these are extraordinary events or 1238 00:55:52,699 --> 00:55:49,650 indicates and Roswell extraordinary 1239 00:55:56,569 --> 00:55:52,709 claim and some people just want to put 1240 00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:56,579 themselves into that story and I think 1241 00:56:00,910 --> 00:55:58,890 that if you studied these people you 1242 00:56:04,279 --> 00:56:00,920 probably find a common psychological 1243 00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:04,289 profile you know one of them perhaps 1244 00:56:11,199 --> 00:56:09,059 being a weak self-identity and people 1245 00:56:14,439 --> 00:56:11,209 seeking to validate themselves by their 1246 00:56:17,269 --> 00:56:14,449 association with some historical 1247 00:56:21,469 --> 00:56:17,279 circumstance I think that that's why you 1248 00:56:21,980 --> 00:56:21,479 find more Roswell Liars then you find 1249 00:56:23,870 --> 00:56:21,990 why 1250 00:56:26,660 --> 00:56:23,880 association with other kinds of you know 1251 00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:26,670 UFO sightings and claims and 1252 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:30,240 controversies because Roswell is the big 1253 00:56:33,350 --> 00:56:31,290 enchilada 1254 00:56:36,260 --> 00:56:33,360 you know that's the one that everybody 1255 00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:36,270 knows about and in fact most people now 1256 00:56:40,910 --> 00:56:38,880 think that the whole UFO excitement 1257 00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:40,920 began with Roswell letters and Ken 1258 00:56:45,070 --> 00:56:43,200 Arnold's I think most people if you ask 1259 00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:45,080 them would know who Kenneth Arnold was 1260 00:56:50,090 --> 00:56:48,750 that's right that's right it's well 1261 00:56:52,250 --> 00:56:50,100 that's the beginning and end of the 1262 00:56:53,900 --> 00:56:52,260 mystery and you also wonder though if 1263 00:56:56,690 --> 00:56:53,910 you're gonna have people who become fake 1264 00:56:58,940 --> 00:56:56,700 whistleblowers for the glory and the 1265 00:57:01,460 --> 00:56:58,950 finances how does that explain someone 1266 00:57:03,020 --> 00:57:01,470 like a colonel philip corso who I guess 1267 00:57:05,090 --> 00:57:03,030 I think insider' to Roswell 1268 00:57:08,350 --> 00:57:05,100 whistleblower yeah I think that that 1269 00:57:11,420 --> 00:57:08,360 probably gets to the core of that 1270 00:57:13,220 --> 00:57:11,430 unanswered question of people putting 1271 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:13,230 themselves in the middle of this I 1272 00:57:19,370 --> 00:57:15,930 talked with people who who knew Corso 1273 00:57:22,790 --> 00:57:19,380 and who say that he gave every 1274 00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:22,800 appearance of being sincere and yet his 1275 00:57:29,870 --> 00:57:25,920 story made no sense and was problematic 1276 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:29,880 than almost any perspective and and yet 1277 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:32,250 he you know went to his grave telling 1278 00:57:37,990 --> 00:57:34,650 this story and you know I think that 1279 00:57:42,859 --> 00:57:38,000 some people who put themselves into some 1280 00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:42,869 core of history you know believe that 1281 00:57:48,530 --> 00:57:46,160 and they actually believe their own 1282 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:48,540 fantasies and I don't really you know 1283 00:57:52,130 --> 00:57:50,730 I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist I 1284 00:57:54,130 --> 00:57:52,140 don't know how this works 1285 00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:54,140 but it does seem to work for some people 1286 00:57:59,060 --> 00:57:56,850 well I think you mentioned before Jerry 1287 00:58:02,180 --> 00:57:59,070 it's it's self esteem issues and and 1288 00:58:04,190 --> 00:58:02,190 worthiness issues people that tend to 1289 00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:04,200 grandstand like that I think have a very 1290 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:06,510 low self esteem and this is a way to 1291 00:58:12,859 --> 00:58:09,690 inflate their their personal a sense of 1292 00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:12,869 self-worth yes but a highly decorated 1293 00:58:17,300 --> 00:58:14,609 military figure of course he almost 1294 00:58:19,099 --> 00:58:17,310 wonder that maybe he was partly or 1295 00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:19,109 completely telling the truth but then 1296 00:58:24,349 --> 00:58:21,780 the powers that be did everything they 1297 00:58:26,420 --> 00:58:24,359 could to discredit him again if it's 1298 00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:26,430 somebody who has a low self-esteem has 1299 00:58:31,849 --> 00:58:29,609 no achievements in life whatever or the 1300 00:58:35,930 --> 00:58:31,859 best days are past them you now have 1301 00:58:39,710 --> 00:58:35,940 somebody who was a decorated soldier 1302 00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:39,720 well car so inflated his resume quite 1303 00:58:45,590 --> 00:58:42,930 apart from the pretend involvement in 1304 00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:45,600 the Roswell story and the subsequent war 1305 00:58:51,740 --> 00:58:49,440 with extraterrestrials you know he he 1306 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:51,750 had the profile of a guy who never quite 1307 00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:54,570 filled his potential yes he had some 1308 00:59:00,080 --> 00:58:57,810 level of accomplishment but clearly he 1309 00:59:02,780 --> 00:59:00,090 never got to the top ranks yeah he never 1310 00:59:05,060 --> 00:59:02,790 made general yeah and he was lieutenant 1311 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:05,070 colonel for a lot longer and he should 1312 00:59:09,470 --> 00:59:07,530 be just a lieutenant colonel and people 1313 00:59:12,380 --> 00:59:09,480 who know military careers a lot better 1314 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:12,390 than I do pointed this out that this was 1315 00:59:17,090 --> 00:59:14,490 a guy who really suffered about other 1316 00:59:18,500 --> 00:59:17,100 things from career disappointment his 1317 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:18,510 career wasn't a complete disaster 1318 00:59:24,110 --> 00:59:20,850 anything like that but it hadn't gone 1319 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:24,120 where he clearly wanted it to go and he 1320 00:59:28,610 --> 00:59:25,890 would have died forgotten we wouldn't be 1321 00:59:31,310 --> 00:59:28,620 talking about Philip Corso if he hadn't 1322 00:59:33,290 --> 00:59:31,320 done this book you know I saw the book 1323 00:59:35,630 --> 00:59:33,300 page proofs I was sent it by the 1324 00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,640 publisher and I was really excited 1325 00:59:39,020 --> 00:59:37,200 because I'd heard that this book was 1326 00:59:41,780 --> 00:59:39,030 coming out and I really expected 1327 00:59:44,690 --> 00:59:41,790 something I started reading it and I 1328 00:59:47,330 --> 00:59:44,700 wasn't more than me be clear four pages 1329 00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,340 into it my gonna realize that this was 1330 00:59:52,430 --> 00:59:49,680 just a science fiction novel pretending 1331 00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:52,440 to be something else one time back in 1332 00:59:59,570 --> 00:59:55,410 the spring of 1997 I was in New York 1333 01:00:01,880 --> 00:59:59,580 City and I was at the office of courses 1334 01:00:04,220 --> 01:00:01,890 publisher and I talked with a young guy 1335 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:04,230 who was his editor and at that time I 1336 01:00:07,790 --> 01:00:06,090 hadn't got word of course I just heard 1337 01:00:09,770 --> 01:00:07,800 the story this book was coming out I 1338 01:00:12,380 --> 01:00:09,780 said understand there's this book coming 1339 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:12,390 out by this guy named Lieutenant Colonel 1340 01:00:18,350 --> 01:00:15,210 Corso about Roswell stuff 1341 01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:18,360 it wasn't what the guy said his editor 1342 01:00:25,250 --> 01:00:20,460 said to me there's what he didn't say 1343 01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:25,260 and it was clear the guy knew this story 1344 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:26,400 wasn't true 1345 01:00:31,970 --> 01:00:29,130 I can't remember his exact words but I 1346 01:00:34,610 --> 01:00:31,980 got the message and I remember being 1347 01:00:36,410 --> 01:00:34,620 disappointed he little displaced because 1348 01:00:40,100 --> 01:00:36,420 I was a lot more hopeful about the 1349 01:00:43,310 --> 01:00:40,110 Roswell story back in 1997 I am in 2013 1350 01:00:45,590 --> 01:00:43,320 when I read the book in page proofs 1351 01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:45,600 accident we'd always I got about halfway 1352 01:00:49,580 --> 01:00:47,910 through a nice lost interest but I 1353 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:49,590 understood what he got 1354 01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:51,330 but the editor was attempting to 1355 01:00:56,150 --> 01:00:53,850 communicate to me don't get too excited 1356 01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:56,160 about this I agree with you and read 1357 01:01:00,290 --> 01:00:57,650 like a novel 1358 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:00,300 have you read the original manuscript 1359 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:02,490 that he supplied the publisher before 1360 01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:05,250 bill burns is brought in it's available 1361 01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:08,490 up on the open minds TV website I 1362 01:01:13,250 --> 01:01:11,040 believe oh is that right how is it 1363 01:01:15,550 --> 01:01:13,260 different from the publisher well it's 1364 01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:15,560 quite a bit different there's bill burns 1365 01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:17,970 really had quite an impact on the final 1366 01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:19,260 product let's put it that way 1367 01:01:26,090 --> 01:01:21,510 why'd you tell our listeners in what 1368 01:01:28,310 --> 01:01:26,100 significant areas it was different I I 1369 01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:28,320 haven't read through it I really have no 1370 01:01:32,860 --> 01:01:30,210 interest in the story I've just never 1371 01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:32,870 I've never felt it that it really had 1372 01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:35,700 any sort of gravitas attached to it I 1373 01:01:41,180 --> 01:01:39,000 just based on some real fundamental 1374 01:01:42,590 --> 01:01:41,190 flaws in it I mean there's there's an 1375 01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:42,600 evidence train for a lot of the 1376 01:01:46,100 --> 01:01:44,880 inventions that he said were salted into 1377 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:46,110 the private sector I mean there's 1378 01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:50,130 there's a very clear chain of evidence 1379 01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:51,720 behind some of the technological 1380 01:01:56,270 --> 01:01:53,520 breakthroughs that Corso claimed were 1381 01:01:58,340 --> 01:01:56,280 you know directly resulted from alien 1382 01:02:00,260 --> 01:01:58,350 technology and and just that fact alone 1383 01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:00,270 it really made me disinterested in the 1384 01:02:05,230 --> 01:02:02,310 whole thing I just felt it was a an 1385 01:02:08,270 --> 01:02:05,240 exercise of inflating you know someone's 1386 01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:08,280 possible position in history and trying 1387 01:02:13,370 --> 01:02:09,690 to make a name for himself before he 1388 01:02:15,470 --> 01:02:13,380 passed along so I haven't really read to 1389 01:02:17,570 --> 01:02:15,480 be honest with you read through the 1390 01:02:20,030 --> 01:02:17,580 original you know entirely through but 1391 01:02:22,310 --> 01:02:20,040 just looking at it I can tell that there 1392 01:02:25,340 --> 01:02:22,320 was incredible embellishments were 1393 01:02:27,350 --> 01:02:25,350 placed in the final product based based 1394 01:02:30,260 --> 01:02:27,360 on the limited amount that I've read of 1395 01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:30,270 the original version of it and again it 1396 01:02:34,370 --> 01:02:31,800 is available and I'm sure there's 1397 01:02:37,450 --> 01:02:34,380 somebody out there who can post at forum 1398 01:02:42,530 --> 01:02:37,460 dr. Peric ask.com with a point by point 1399 01:02:45,410 --> 01:02:42,540 analysis of how his original work you 1400 01:02:47,570 --> 01:02:45,420 know was really built built out by burns 1401 01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:47,580 and by the publisher when I read the 1402 01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:50,250 book originally or at least the page 1403 01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:54,000 proofs I recognized that what this 1404 01:02:59,060 --> 01:02:56,970 consisted of was just a bunch of stuff 1405 01:03:01,100 --> 01:02:59,070 that was currently being discussed among 1406 01:03:03,500 --> 01:03:01,110 youth ologist about the supposed 1407 01:03:06,170 --> 01:03:03,510 cover-up surrounding 1408 01:03:08,030 --> 01:03:06,180 the Rosalind for example I people pair 1409 01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:08,040 that are entirely predictable like 1410 01:03:13,310 --> 01:03:10,170 Roberts are Bakker you know the 1411 01:03:15,170 --> 01:03:13,320 physicists who said to Wilbur Smith that 1412 01:03:17,180 --> 01:03:15,180 there were there was a crash sauce in 1413 01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:17,190 there were bodies and sour Barker's 1414 01:03:21,770 --> 01:03:19,680 brought into the story as a major figure 1415 01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:21,780 in the cover-up and it was like the 1416 01:03:27,710 --> 01:03:24,000 mj-12 document if you look at the NJ 1417 01:03:29,090 --> 01:03:27,720 Club document and then go around and go 1418 01:03:31,070 --> 01:03:29,100 back and look at what was being 1419 01:03:33,950 --> 01:03:31,080 discussed with in ethology about the 1420 01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:33,960 Rosalind in the mid-1980s so more or 1421 01:03:38,060 --> 01:03:36,240 less supported what was believed then we 1422 01:03:40,940 --> 01:03:38,070 have Jerome Clarke joining Jean and 1423 01:03:48,460 --> 01:03:40,950 Chris you're in the para cast 1424 01:03:54,259 --> 01:03:51,140 so here's what happened I was placing an 1425 01:03:56,900 --> 01:03:54,269 order online the site went down it just 1426 01:03:58,729 --> 01:03:56,910 stopped responding it took hours before 1427 01:04:00,529 --> 01:03:58,739 it returned but I'd already placed the 1428 01:04:03,109 --> 01:04:00,539 order with another company if your site 1429 01:04:04,670 --> 01:04:03,119 goes down you could lose business and if 1430 01:04:07,039 --> 01:04:04,680 you have a business or personal site 1431 01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:07,049 you'll want to know it's easy to run and 1432 01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:10,799 it will stay online at iWeb your site is 1433 01:04:16,009 --> 01:04:13,200 hosted on one of the most reliable 1434 01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:16,019 networks in the world check it out 1435 01:04:21,140 --> 01:04:19,680 I web comm that's iWeb comm first game 1436 01:04:23,180 --> 01:04:21,150 attack of the rock codes and it was a 1437 01:04:25,130 --> 01:04:23,190 critically acclaimed success and now 1438 01:04:27,259 --> 01:04:25,140 there is the coming of the protectors a 1439 01:04:29,569 --> 01:04:27,269 former military intelligence man is 1440 01:04:31,339 --> 01:04:29,579 contacted by a space woman in a dream a 1441 01:04:33,769 --> 01:04:31,349 dream that turns out to be a nightmare 1442 01:04:35,539 --> 01:04:33,779 because evil forces on our distant 1443 01:04:38,180 --> 01:04:35,549 planet are planning to conquer the earth 1444 01:04:40,609 --> 01:04:38,190 this is gripping science fiction of the 1445 01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:40,619 classic kind attack of the rock codes 1446 01:04:45,289 --> 01:04:42,690 and the coming of the protectors find 1447 01:04:47,299 --> 01:04:45,299 out more at Rocko it's calm that's rock 1448 01:04:50,900 --> 01:04:47,309 oh it's our Ock oids 1449 01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:50,910 dot-com friends this is Alex Jones for 1450 01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:53,609 Midas resources dot-com for more than 15 1451 01:04:57,499 --> 01:04:55,650 years I have exclusively used Midas 1452 01:04:59,329 --> 01:04:57,509 resources for all my precious metal 1453 01:05:01,370 --> 01:04:59,339 needs whether it's 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destroy 1495 01:07:00,690 --> 01:06:58,510 any family we simply cannot afford to 1496 01:07:02,610 --> 01:07:00,700 get sick the only option is to stay 1497 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:02,620 healthy Americans are learning that ill 1498 01:07:06,510 --> 01:07:04,450 health is not caused by a deficiency of 1499 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:06,520 drugs it's usually the results of a 1500 01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:09,250 deficiency of minerals vitamins proper 1501 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:11,890 nutrition and exercise utopia silver 1502 01:07:16,380 --> 01:07:14,170 calm offers colloidal silver and healing 1503 01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:16,390 protocols for vaccine and radiation 1504 01:07:21,630 --> 01:07:19,690 poisoning arthritis insomnia and more if 1505 01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:21,640 you're sick of unconstitutional 1506 01:07:26,550 --> 01:07:23,920 government mandates then stand up now 1507 01:07:28,380 --> 01:07:26,560 and say no the time is growing short to 1508 01:07:30,450 --> 01:07:28,390 put this evil genie back in its bottle 1509 01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:30,460 join utopia silver in promoting good 1510 01:07:34,980 --> 01:07:32,290 health and fighting for our god-given 1511 01:07:40,430 --> 01:07:34,990 health care rights visit utopias over 1512 01:07:45,090 --> 01:07:40,440 comm UT o VI a silver comm or call 888 1513 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:45,100 213 43:38 that's eight eight eight two 1514 01:07:55,510 --> 01:07:53,500 we'd like to hear from you if you have a 1515 01:07:59,200 --> 01:07:55,520 comment or question about the para cast 1516 01:08:02,800 --> 01:07:59,210 sent it to news at the para cast com 1517 01:08:04,900 --> 01:08:02,810 that's news at the para cast calm and 1518 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:04,910 don't forget to visit our famous para 1519 01:08:12,550 --> 01:08:08,090 cast community forums at forum dot the 1520 01:08:15,220 --> 01:08:12,560 para cast calm so the theory here of 1521 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:15,230 course is that when books like that were 1522 01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:17,810 crafted like the day after Roswell they 1523 01:08:23,140 --> 01:08:20,480 looked at the UFO popular culture and 1524 01:08:25,540 --> 01:08:23,150 used that to influence them rather than 1525 01:08:27,460 --> 01:08:25,550 talk accurately about what was going on 1526 01:08:29,740 --> 01:08:27,470 so it also takes us back to the 1527 01:08:32,230 --> 01:08:29,750 beginning here which is what can we 1528 01:08:35,590 --> 01:08:32,240 believe or disbelieve about the Roswell 1529 01:08:38,620 --> 01:08:35,600 case since so much of this fact fiction 1530 01:08:40,690 --> 01:08:38,630 dramatic license is being taken so much 1531 01:08:43,630 --> 01:08:40,700 of that has influenced the story well I 1532 01:08:46,990 --> 01:08:43,640 think that really as far as I can tell 1533 01:08:49,660 --> 01:08:47,000 the only reasonable response to all this 1534 01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:49,670 stuff about Roswell some of it seeming 1535 01:08:56,170 --> 01:08:52,640 incredible intriguing not explained and 1536 01:08:59,290 --> 01:08:56,180 then a whole lot of dubious stuff you 1537 01:09:00,430 --> 01:08:59,300 know competing with it it's just to be 1538 01:09:05,050 --> 01:09:00,440 an agnostic 1539 01:09:06,730 --> 01:09:05,060 you know just read the stuff follow the 1540 01:09:10,150 --> 01:09:06,740 controversy if you want to if you're 1541 01:09:12,579 --> 01:09:10,160 interested and just say well this case 1542 01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:12,589 is improved that doesn't mean it won't 1543 01:09:20,050 --> 01:09:15,050 be proved down the road so I mean I'm 1544 01:09:23,829 --> 01:09:20,060 certain in myself that this will not be 1545 01:09:25,980 --> 01:09:23,839 resolved into actual documents are 1546 01:09:28,349 --> 01:09:25,990 produced whose provenance is 1547 01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:28,359 unquestioned we know these were 1548 01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:31,450 contemporary you know military or other 1549 01:09:37,870 --> 01:09:35,359 government documents attesting to the 1550 01:09:41,460 --> 01:09:37,880 incident that people described from 1551 01:09:44,380 --> 01:09:41,470 memory orally decades later until then 1552 01:09:47,970 --> 01:09:44,390 III don't think that it's anything but a 1553 01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:47,980 but a curiosity it's just like a 1554 01:09:53,890 --> 01:09:51,770 historical mystery and it just even 1555 01:09:56,590 --> 01:09:53,900 after all these years it's just other 1556 01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:56,600 things have gone anywhere you have a lot 1557 01:10:01,720 --> 01:09:59,600 of interesting intriguing puzzling 1558 01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:01,730 testimony and then a lot of 1559 01:10:06,820 --> 01:10:03,920 proved hoaxes and a lot of conclusion 1560 01:10:10,990 --> 01:10:06,830 jumping a lot of premature debunking and 1561 01:10:13,870 --> 01:10:11,000 it's just a mess and I think barring 1562 01:10:15,790 --> 01:10:13,880 some incredibly unexpected revelations 1563 01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:15,800 such as they say documents with 1564 01:10:20,410 --> 01:10:17,930 unquestioned provenance it's not going 1565 01:10:22,330 --> 01:10:20,420 to change yeah it's it's a perfect 1566 01:10:24,729 --> 01:10:22,340 distraction it's a perfect red herring 1567 01:10:28,030 --> 01:10:24,739 to keep everybody focused on something 1568 01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:28,040 that is as you're suggesting is it could 1569 01:10:33,850 --> 01:10:31,250 be virtually unsolvable well other cases 1570 01:10:36,100 --> 01:10:33,860 that should receive major attention are 1571 01:10:36,729 --> 01:10:36,110 just disappearing into the dustbin of 1572 01:10:39,580 --> 01:10:36,739 history 1573 01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:39,590 if Roswell actually happened the 1574 01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:41,090 wreckage would have had to have been 1575 01:10:46,330 --> 01:10:43,489 taken somewhere and yes I understand 1576 01:10:48,670 --> 01:10:46,340 about possibly funneling it into private 1577 01:10:50,410 --> 01:10:48,680 industry people having a need to know 1578 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:50,420 about different aspects of it but 1579 01:10:56,229 --> 01:10:52,970 wouldn't there be one genuine 1580 01:10:57,700 --> 01:10:56,239 whistleblower after over 60 years how 1581 01:10:59,470 --> 01:10:57,710 could they keep the secret that long 1582 01:11:02,229 --> 01:10:59,480 something somewhere would have leaked 1583 01:11:04,650 --> 01:11:02,239 well you could argue that there had been 1584 01:11:07,780 --> 01:11:04,660 leaks I mean I think that the Roswell 1585 01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:07,790 investigators have spent uncovered some 1586 01:11:12,820 --> 01:11:10,370 people who were there some retired 1587 01:11:14,770 --> 01:11:12,830 military officers most important all 1588 01:11:17,140 --> 01:11:14,780 dead by now but obviously they were 1589 01:11:19,690 --> 01:11:17,150 interviewed before they were dead who 1590 01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:19,700 seemed completely sincere and his story 1591 01:11:24,130 --> 01:11:21,890 seemed you know confirmed by the 1592 01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:24,140 testimony of others who were there and 1593 01:11:29,860 --> 01:11:26,530 so on I mean there there is a body of 1594 01:11:32,620 --> 01:11:29,870 genuinely puzzling testimony by people 1595 01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:32,630 who seem to be honest from in in whose 1596 01:11:38,290 --> 01:11:35,450 testimony is backed up by this or that 1597 01:11:40,330 --> 01:11:38,300 body of evidence I mean something 1598 01:11:42,700 --> 01:11:40,340 happened I don't think there's any 1599 01:11:44,350 --> 01:11:42,710 question something happened it's just 1600 01:11:46,930 --> 01:11:44,360 that what was the nature of that 1601 01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:46,940 something and some of the people who 1602 01:11:54,580 --> 01:11:48,410 were there tell these extraordinary 1603 01:11:56,650 --> 01:11:54,590 stories that just makes such claims that 1604 01:11:59,020 --> 01:11:56,660 you have to have more than just their 1605 01:12:01,720 --> 01:11:59,030 testimony however sincere 1606 01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:01,730 and one thing that struck me reading you 1607 01:12:07,300 --> 01:12:05,120 know the books by Kerry and Schmidt in 1608 01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:07,310 particular was you know the description 1609 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:09,010 of the effects that these this 1610 01:12:14,590 --> 01:12:11,330 experience had on people some of them 1611 01:12:15,250 --> 01:12:14,600 were sort of traumatized to their graves 1612 01:12:17,290 --> 01:12:15,260 according 1613 01:12:19,330 --> 01:12:17,300 to family members and you read this 1614 01:12:23,230 --> 01:12:19,340 stuff and you think this is really 1615 01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:23,240 interesting but it just doesn't go 1616 01:12:29,530 --> 01:12:25,970 anywhere beyond a bunch of strange 1617 01:12:31,540 --> 01:12:29,540 stories but he comes back again to the 1618 01:12:35,550 --> 01:12:31,550 same problem which is if you had a 1619 01:12:38,410 --> 01:12:35,560 physical spaceship that was picked up 1620 01:12:41,410 --> 01:12:38,420 from the New Mexico desert had to be 1621 01:12:44,830 --> 01:12:41,420 taken somewhere where did it go what was 1622 01:12:47,170 --> 01:12:44,840 done with it who knew and how do they 1623 01:12:48,730 --> 01:12:47,180 keep the secret this long as you say 1624 01:12:50,260 --> 01:12:48,740 maybe there has been some whistle 1625 01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:50,270 blowing and maybe it's been muddled by a 1626 01:12:56,290 --> 01:12:53,450 little disinformation from here to there 1627 01:12:58,420 --> 01:12:56,300 and back again but I just think 1628 01:13:00,880 --> 01:12:58,430 somewhere along the line there's got to 1629 01:13:02,620 --> 01:13:00,890 be something out there how do they keep 1630 01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:02,630 that kind of secret the government can't 1631 01:13:06,820 --> 01:13:04,310 do anything right they can't get out of 1632 01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:06,830 their own way well I I do have a problem 1633 01:13:11,260 --> 01:13:09,410 with no no memory metal coming forward 1634 01:13:13,690 --> 01:13:11,270 somebody must have squirreled some of 1635 01:13:15,850 --> 01:13:13,700 that evidence away and why haven't we 1636 01:13:19,420 --> 01:13:15,860 seen a single piece and there was like 1637 01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:19,430 you know a whole football fields worth 1638 01:13:27,190 --> 01:13:23,120 of material why haven't we seen somebody 1639 01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:27,200 come forward with slam dunk evidence 1640 01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:30,170 that this material had the had the 1641 01:13:35,140 --> 01:13:31,760 qualities that that people have 1642 01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:35,150 described I think the answer is I don't 1643 01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:38,930 know I mean I just think that if I say 1644 01:13:44,370 --> 01:13:41,210 it's just it's a bunch of strange 1645 01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:44,380 stories not all of them obvious hoaxes 1646 01:13:50,650 --> 01:13:48,320 but unless you got you say actual memory 1647 01:13:54,130 --> 01:13:50,660 metal or documents unquestioned 1648 01:13:57,490 --> 01:13:54,140 provenance it's just saying for 1649 01:14:00,040 --> 01:13:57,500 ufologists to lead with Roswell as their 1650 01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:00,050 major piece of evidence too you know 1651 01:14:04,930 --> 01:14:03,050 persuade skeptical scientists and other 1652 01:14:07,060 --> 01:14:04,940 people of the seriousness of the UFO 1653 01:14:09,460 --> 01:14:07,070 question I mean the seriousness of UFO 1654 01:14:12,550 --> 01:14:09,470 question really comes out of stories 1655 01:14:14,230 --> 01:14:12,560 that are of radar visuals and physical 1656 01:14:16,090 --> 01:14:14,240 traces and things like that it doesn't 1657 01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:16,100 come out of a bunch of people strange 1658 01:14:22,510 --> 01:14:19,730 stories about an unprovable experience 1659 01:14:26,260 --> 01:14:22,520 but doesn't that also serve to obscure 1660 01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:26,270 all those other sightings and that would 1661 01:14:30,180 --> 01:14:28,570 serve the purpose of key 1662 01:14:32,490 --> 01:14:30,190 if you focus everybody's attention on 1663 01:14:34,620 --> 01:14:32,500 Roswell for better or worse would ever 1664 01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:34,630 happen there they're not going to look 1665 01:14:39,780 --> 01:14:37,510 into Stephenville Texas and not going to 1666 01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:39,790 look into a thousand one other 1667 01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:42,850 compelling reports yeah my point exactly 1668 01:14:48,210 --> 01:14:45,490 well you know if you mean something 1669 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:48,220 conspiratorial about that I'm more than 1670 01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:49,930 a little skeptical because first of all 1671 01:14:56,490 --> 01:14:54,010 by the late 1970s the UFO story as far 1672 01:15:00,060 --> 01:14:56,500 as scientists and prospective opinions 1673 01:15:02,070 --> 01:15:00,070 elite media etc are concerned the UFO 1674 01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:02,080 story had played out it wasn't going 1675 01:15:07,830 --> 01:15:05,770 anywhere it was just a fringe thing and 1676 01:15:10,710 --> 01:15:07,840 if anything Roswell gave it a new lease 1677 01:15:12,420 --> 01:15:10,720 on life and it interested Congress I 1678 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:12,430 mean it was out there actually were some 1679 01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:14,530 you know low level kind of quiet 1680 01:15:20,940 --> 01:15:17,410 increase in Congress President Clinton 1681 01:15:23,100 --> 01:15:20,950 when he was elected wanted top aides to 1682 01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:23,110 look into the Roswell story the Roswell 1683 01:15:28,170 --> 01:15:24,640 story actually had the opposite effect 1684 01:15:31,590 --> 01:15:28,180 it revived not only popular interest in 1685 01:15:34,220 --> 01:15:31,600 UFOs but also official interest no I 1686 01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:34,230 think that Roswell wasn't anybody's 1687 01:15:40,260 --> 01:15:37,810 project to kill UFOs if it was it would 1688 01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:40,270 had the opposite effect anybody who 1689 01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:42,730 wanted UFOs killed would have just let 1690 01:15:46,590 --> 01:15:45,130 the status quo continue I think was a 1691 01:15:50,090 --> 01:15:46,600 distraction I think there's a 1692 01:15:52,950 --> 01:15:50,100 possibility that it's on some level 1693 01:15:54,270 --> 01:15:52,960 official notice was was taken they said 1694 01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:54,280 well hey we can use this to our 1695 01:15:58,460 --> 01:15:56,050 advantage and keep people focused on 1696 01:16:01,650 --> 01:15:58,470 this while you know real important 1697 01:16:04,130 --> 01:16:01,660 potential cases are you know just going 1698 01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:04,140 by the wayside taking genes point there 1699 01:16:10,620 --> 01:16:08,770 so yeah obviously it was a revival of 1700 01:16:13,860 --> 01:16:10,630 interest but at the same time it was a 1701 01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:13,870 perfect place to get the public's 1702 01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:16,930 attention focused on and also a perfect 1703 01:16:21,810 --> 01:16:19,570 vehicle for disinformation and red 1704 01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:21,820 herrings speaking of red herrings we'll 1705 01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:23,920 have some more discussion about that 1706 01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:26,050 shortly but right now we're talking to 1707 01:16:31,010 --> 01:16:28,450 jerome Clark with gene and Chris you're 1708 01:16:38,950 --> 01:16:31,020 in the para cust 1709 01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:41,170 America's number one source for 1710 01:16:44,570 --> 01:16:43,650 independent talk retail for over a 1711 01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:44,580 decade 1712 01:16:52,190 --> 01:16:49,770 we are the gcn radio network graphic 1713 01:16:54,430 --> 01:16:52,200 converter is the image manipulation tool 1714 01:16:57,050 --> 01:16:54,440 for the rest of us it does not use any 1715 01:16:59,540 --> 01:16:57,060 database you get full control of all 1716 01:17:01,880 --> 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01:20:59,370 --> 01:20:57,190 [Music] 1813 01:21:08,790 --> 01:20:59,380 hi my name is Richard Dolan you're 1814 01:21:14,740 --> 01:21:12,490 but is the Roswell case a possible red 1815 01:21:17,260 --> 01:21:14,750 herring real or imagined or fake 1816 01:21:19,780 --> 01:21:17,270 whatever to divert our attention from 1817 01:21:21,490 --> 01:21:19,790 all that other great stuff going on with 1818 01:21:23,710 --> 01:21:21,500 Gina and Chris we have Jerome Clark 1819 01:21:26,530 --> 01:21:23,720 Jerry want mention any further comments 1820 01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:26,540 before we move on yeah I just I just 1821 01:21:29,740 --> 01:21:28,370 Frank's don't believe that I'd have to 1822 01:21:32,470 --> 01:21:29,750 see some good evidence that there was 1823 01:21:35,500 --> 01:21:32,480 some kind of conspiratorial operation 1824 01:21:37,540 --> 01:21:35,510 behind the revival of interest in Rasul 1825 01:21:39,190 --> 01:21:37,550 from my point of view as someone who's 1826 01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:39,200 written a lot about the history of the 1827 01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:41,570 UFO controversy the UFO controversy in 1828 01:21:47,770 --> 01:21:43,730 America pretty much was dead after the 1829 01:21:51,250 --> 01:21:47,780 mid 1970s I think the last chance for a 1830 01:21:54,010 --> 01:21:51,260 real change of a leading scientist 1831 01:21:56,130 --> 01:21:54,020 the New York Times and so on was pretty 1832 01:21:59,190 --> 01:21:56,140 much played out by the nineteen 1833 01:22:02,200 --> 01:21:59,200 mid-1970s the last part of it was the 1834 01:22:04,810 --> 01:22:02,210 1973 waves which attracted a lot of 1835 01:22:07,570 --> 01:22:04,820 interest and respectful attention and 1836 01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:07,580 talked about ecology you know these 1837 01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:09,410 things have been around and they've been 1838 01:22:14,410 --> 01:22:11,330 inadequately explained maybe we should 1839 01:22:18,670 --> 01:22:14,420 look at this but by the late 1970s that 1840 01:22:22,090 --> 01:22:18,680 died out too and I think that the whole 1841 01:22:24,090 --> 01:22:22,100 UFO controversy was pretty much dead and 1842 01:22:26,710 --> 01:22:24,100 just in the hands of some of us who 1843 01:22:29,530 --> 01:22:26,720 refused to be told what to think 1844 01:22:32,170 --> 01:22:29,540 yeah by the 1970s the lightning in 1845 01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:32,180 saying I just don't think that Roswell 1846 01:22:37,570 --> 01:22:34,370 served anybody's purposes I think it was 1847 01:22:41,470 --> 01:22:37,580 just something that Stan Friedman and 1848 01:22:43,090 --> 01:22:41,480 Bill Moore accidentally stumbled upon I 1849 01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:43,100 don't think anybody set them up I've 1850 01:22:47,590 --> 01:22:44,810 never seen any evidence that Jesse 1851 01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:47,600 Marcel senior was some kind of you know 1852 01:22:52,300 --> 01:22:49,730 I'm not suggesting that I am and again 1853 01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:52,310 it begins with Stan Friedman's meeting 1854 01:22:58,450 --> 01:22:56,330 Jesse Marcel purely coincidentally when 1855 01:23:01,150 --> 01:22:58,460 Stan was and I believe Louisiana 1856 01:23:03,190 --> 01:23:01,160 yeah Louisiana and I think it was just a 1857 01:23:05,050 --> 01:23:03,200 circumstance and then it built up and 1858 01:23:06,670 --> 01:23:05,060 you finally just aren't immune to this 1859 01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:06,680 they're human I mean you see a chance 1860 01:23:10,090 --> 01:23:09,050 maybe this is going to blow the whole 1861 01:23:12,700 --> 01:23:10,100 thing wide open 1862 01:23:14,440 --> 01:23:12,710 we get excited or we least we used to 1863 01:23:17,470 --> 01:23:14,450 get excited and we believed the thing 1864 01:23:19,810 --> 01:23:17,480 could be blown wide open I remember a 1865 01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:19,820 lot of that excitement was focused on 1866 01:23:24,230 --> 01:23:21,090 the abduction phenomena 1867 01:23:27,410 --> 01:23:24,240 and in the in the early nineteen 1980s 1868 01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:27,420 and that was a disappointment and I 1869 01:23:30,770 --> 01:23:29,130 think that Roswell just played out the 1870 01:23:33,650 --> 01:23:30,780 way some I think things to do we just 1871 01:23:35,990 --> 01:23:33,660 labor and get nowhere and then something 1872 01:23:38,780 --> 01:23:36,000 comes up it seems to give us a chance to 1873 01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:38,790 make some quantum leap and be the 1874 01:23:41,870 --> 01:23:40,170 quantum leap doesn't happen 1875 01:23:44,330 --> 01:23:41,880 well the quantum leap of course never 1876 01:23:46,850 --> 01:23:44,340 occurs and it's probably not going to 1877 01:23:49,700 --> 01:23:46,860 occur I think that basically all the 1878 01:23:51,650 --> 01:23:49,710 power in this relationship is in the 1879 01:23:52,190 --> 01:23:51,660 phenomenon the phenomenon makes the 1880 01:23:54,530 --> 01:23:52,200 rules 1881 01:23:57,320 --> 01:23:54,540 and decides how these things work and 1882 01:23:59,030 --> 01:23:57,330 the rest of us who aren't part of the 1883 01:24:01,160 --> 01:23:59,040 phenomenon or just trying to understand 1884 01:24:04,430 --> 01:24:01,170 they're just beating our heads against 1885 01:24:07,630 --> 01:24:04,440 it it's not helping us by it I mean the 1886 01:24:11,570 --> 01:24:07,640 phenomena it just continues a sort of 1887 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:11,580 elusive puzzling wait where you think 1888 01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:14,010 then that the phenomenon is possibly 1889 01:24:20,420 --> 01:24:17,280 directing our perceptions of it I don't 1890 01:24:23,150 --> 01:24:20,430 know that I do know first of all as I 1891 01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:23,160 said in my previous appearances on the 1892 01:24:26,510 --> 01:24:24,890 show I don't want to repeat myself 1893 01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:26,520 unnecessarily but I think there are a 1894 01:24:31,610 --> 01:24:28,410 couple things going on one is an event 1895 01:24:34,670 --> 01:24:31,620 phenomenon experienced phenomena the 1896 01:24:38,060 --> 01:24:34,680 event phenomenon in the UFO context is 1897 01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:38,070 the Hardcore phenomenon day radar 1898 01:24:43,580 --> 01:24:41,250 visuals physical traces the SI toos 1899 01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:43,590 things like that which actually seem to 1900 01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:46,850 represent somebody else's technology and 1901 01:24:52,070 --> 01:24:49,050 probably an extraterrestrial technology 1902 01:24:55,130 --> 01:24:52,080 so a small part of what people reported 1903 01:24:58,430 --> 01:24:55,140 UFOs may indeed be visiting spacecraft 1904 01:25:00,860 --> 01:24:58,440 from those sources what most of what 1905 01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:00,870 people experience in terms of anomalies 1906 01:25:07,010 --> 01:25:04,530 in the paranormal is an experience you 1907 01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:07,020 can experience it you can vividly 1908 01:25:11,990 --> 01:25:08,850 experience that you don't have to be 1909 01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:12,000 crazy it's it's a real experience but 1910 01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:15,330 that's all it is there's no way in our 1911 01:25:21,530 --> 01:25:18,210 level of current knowledge you can get 1912 01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:21,540 beyond somebody's story somebody's 1913 01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:24,510 memory somebody's testimony of some 1914 01:25:31,460 --> 01:25:28,410 extraordinary encounter and so when we 1915 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:31,470 get beyond like the are b-47 types of 1916 01:25:34,940 --> 01:25:34,410 cases we're dealing with something that 1917 01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:34,950 is 1918 01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:38,730 by its nature solely and memory in 1919 01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:41,600 testimony there's no independent 1920 01:25:48,140 --> 01:25:45,570 physical or instrumented attestation to 1921 01:25:50,540 --> 01:25:48,150 its reality it's just something that 1922 01:25:53,030 --> 01:25:50,550 happened to you it was very frightening 1923 01:25:55,190 --> 01:25:53,040 or unsettling but it doesn't go any 1924 01:25:58,640 --> 01:25:55,200 further than that and what makes it even 1925 01:26:01,070 --> 01:25:58,650 more confounding is that it is filtered 1926 01:26:05,170 --> 01:26:01,080 through your consciousness so you're 1927 01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:05,180 experiencing it in some kind of cultural 1928 01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:07,050 otherworldly or super national 1929 01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:10,170 experience is society's expectations 1930 01:26:16,430 --> 01:26:12,810 about otherworldly experiences change 1931 01:26:19,910 --> 01:26:16,440 over time and things that work may have 1932 01:26:23,540 --> 01:26:19,920 been experienced for example as fairies 1933 01:26:27,460 --> 01:26:23,550 and elves in the you know the sixteenth 1934 01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:27,470 century are experienced in some kind of 1935 01:26:33,140 --> 01:26:30,210 extraterrestrial appearing context in 1936 01:26:36,110 --> 01:26:33,150 the 20th and 21st centuries because our 1937 01:26:38,690 --> 01:26:36,120 idea of an otherworldly experience is an 1938 01:26:40,670 --> 01:26:38,700 encounter with beings another planet but 1939 01:26:43,700 --> 01:26:40,680 could you possibly take that further and 1940 01:26:45,950 --> 01:26:43,710 say it is the same as what appears to 1941 01:26:48,260 --> 01:26:45,960 have a separate physical reality such as 1942 01:26:50,930 --> 01:26:48,270 things that have simultaneous visual 1943 01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:50,940 radar encounters things that could be 1944 01:26:55,250 --> 01:26:53,040 photographed where is the line of 1945 01:26:57,260 --> 01:26:55,260 demarcation between these two only 1946 01:26:59,780 --> 01:26:57,270 because there seems to be a physical 1947 01:27:03,950 --> 01:26:59,790 effect that you could see or measure yes 1948 01:27:07,730 --> 01:27:03,960 I mean for example the hardcore UFO 1949 01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:07,740 cases our technology technologically 1950 01:27:12,050 --> 01:27:09,810 based not only to appearance but to the 1951 01:27:14,270 --> 01:27:12,060 testimony of radars other instruments 1952 01:27:16,790 --> 01:27:14,280 that there is something there it 1953 01:27:19,220 --> 01:27:16,800 resonates like technology with acts like 1954 01:27:23,170 --> 01:27:19,230 a technology I mean it advanced 1955 01:27:26,420 --> 01:27:23,180 technology but a high strangeness 1956 01:27:29,110 --> 01:27:26,430 experience it's just that there is not 1957 01:27:33,580 --> 01:27:29,120 for example in the abduction phenomenon 1958 01:27:37,700 --> 01:27:33,590 the equivalent of an RB 47 case 1959 01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:37,710 abduction stories are entirely strange 1960 01:27:44,780 --> 01:27:41,370 stories they live in in testimony 1961 01:27:47,679 --> 01:27:44,790 delivers memory sincere non crazy people 1962 01:27:51,489 --> 01:27:47,689 tell about undergoing me 1963 01:27:54,949 --> 01:27:51,499 but that's all they are and in another 1964 01:27:57,919 --> 01:27:54,959 cultural context the precipitating 1965 01:28:00,589 --> 01:27:57,929 agents wouldn't be extensible aliens 1966 01:28:06,459 --> 01:28:00,599 from outer space but some other kind of 1967 01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:06,469 you know extraordinary entities it's 1968 01:28:12,529 --> 01:28:10,800 loading yeah that's for example why you 1969 01:28:16,429 --> 01:28:12,539 know in 1897 1970 01:28:18,739 --> 01:28:16,439 you know people experienced these things 1971 01:28:21,709 --> 01:28:18,749 that look like somebody's airship and 1972 01:28:26,209 --> 01:28:21,719 the entities they encountered looks like 1973 01:28:28,879 --> 01:28:26,219 ordinary American inventors and that 1974 01:28:31,100 --> 01:28:28,889 there weren't real airships there 1975 01:28:34,339 --> 01:28:31,110 weren't real American inventors we know 1976 01:28:38,209 --> 01:28:34,349 from history but nonetheless they seem 1977 01:28:40,339 --> 01:28:38,219 to be real experiences to people and I 1978 01:28:43,819 --> 01:28:40,349 think that's equivalent to the the kind 1979 01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:43,829 of high strangeness end of the of the 1980 01:28:48,859 --> 01:28:46,530 so-called UFO phenomenon when in fact 1981 01:28:51,049 --> 01:28:48,869 there isn't a single phenomenon there 1982 01:28:53,419 --> 01:28:51,059 are at least two phenomena and one is 1983 01:28:56,679 --> 01:28:53,429 the event phenomena Mia there's the 1984 01:28:59,810 --> 01:28:56,689 experience phenomena and I think that 1985 01:29:02,270 --> 01:28:59,820 you can't if you're trying to understand 1986 01:29:04,850 --> 01:29:02,280 the core phenomenon by studying 1987 01:29:06,709 --> 01:29:04,860 abduction stories you aren't trying to 1988 01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:06,719 get anywhere if you're trying to 1989 01:29:11,020 --> 01:29:08,400 establish that there's somebody else's 1990 01:29:13,370 --> 01:29:11,030 technology is in the Earth's atmosphere 1991 01:29:16,989 --> 01:29:13,380 and you're going to be studying radar 1992 01:29:21,020 --> 01:29:16,999 patrol cases physical trace cases see - 1993 01:29:22,879 --> 01:29:21,030 the sort of thing that leaves trace is 1994 01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:22,889 something that actually science could 1995 01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:26,130 work with if it wanted to but the 1996 01:29:31,100 --> 01:29:28,130 experience phenomenon is by its nature 1997 01:29:33,199 --> 01:29:31,110 just elusive and unprovable its 1998 01:29:35,569 --> 01:29:33,209 experienceable but that's about all and 1999 01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:35,579 you don't see a connection between the 2000 01:29:42,140 --> 01:29:40,170 two at all I see that the the the event 2001 01:29:46,250 --> 01:29:42,150 phenomenon is providing some of the 2002 01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:46,260 imagery for the for the experience 2003 01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:49,050 phenomena and that in that energy that 2004 01:29:57,350 --> 01:29:52,489 imagery is picked up in kind of 2005 01:29:59,629 --> 01:29:57,360 anomalous dreams might call experienced 2006 01:30:01,190 --> 01:29:59,639 anomalies they're sort of like in your 2007 01:30:03,530 --> 01:30:01,200 sleeping life 2008 01:30:06,470 --> 01:30:03,540 you're dreaming the images you get in 2009 01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:06,480 your dreams are from your conscious 2010 01:30:10,970 --> 01:30:08,850 memory your conscious experience but 2011 01:30:13,850 --> 01:30:10,980 that doesn't mean that your dreams are 2012 01:30:16,510 --> 01:30:13,860 literally true with their literal 2013 01:30:20,090 --> 01:30:16,520 experiences they're just you know 2014 01:30:22,460 --> 01:30:20,100 fragments of memory and imagery that you 2015 01:30:24,620 --> 01:30:22,470 pick up just from living in the world 2016 01:30:26,660 --> 01:30:24,630 we're going to move to this world for a 2017 01:30:29,090 --> 01:30:26,670 moment then be back here we have Jerome 2018 01:30:31,010 --> 01:30:29,100 Clarke joining Jean and Chris in the 2019 01:30:38,620 --> 01:30:31,020 para cast 2020 01:30:45,250 --> 01:30:41,260 are you tired of searching for great 2021 01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:45,260 talk radio more important search Noboru 2022 01:30:51,220 --> 01:30:49,730 we are the GCM radio network first came 2023 01:30:53,260 --> 01:30:51,230 attack of the rock codes and it was a 2024 01:30:55,209 --> 01:30:53,270 critically acclaimed success and now 2025 01:30:57,310 --> 01:30:55,219 there is the coming of the protectors a 2026 01:30:59,620 --> 01:30:57,320 former military intelligence man is 2027 01:31:01,419 --> 01:30:59,630 contacted by a space woman in a dream a 2028 01:31:03,850 --> 01:31:01,429 dream that turns out to be a nightmare 2029 01:31:05,890 --> 01:31:03,860 because evil forces on our distant 2030 01:31:08,229 --> 01:31:05,900 planet are planning to conquer the earth 2031 01:31:10,959 --> 01:31:08,239 this is gripping science fiction of the 2032 01:31:12,910 --> 01:31:10,969 classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and 2033 01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:12,920 the coming of the protectors find out 2034 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the 2103 01:33:56,830 --> 01:33:54,650 periodic table these elements are the 2104 01:33:59,080 --> 01:33:56,840 building blocks of everything in the 2105 01:34:01,060 --> 01:33:59,090 universe you my friends are made from 2106 01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:01,070 these elements a shortage of any of 2107 01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:02,810 these important trace elements can lead 2108 01:34:07,330 --> 01:34:05,330 to disease go with the science and take 2109 01:34:09,370 --> 01:34:07,340 the lady talk health challenge and get 2110 01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:09,380 all 90 essential trace elements with a 2111 01:34:14,500 --> 01:34:12,170 healthy start back at lady talk live.com 2112 01:34:17,050 --> 01:34:14,510 or call eight five five three three 2113 01:34:19,870 --> 01:34:17,060 three lady that's eight five five three 2114 01:34:21,700 --> 01:34:19,880 three three five two three nine research 2115 01:34:23,890 --> 01:34:21,710 shows it's not just what you put in your 2116 01:34:25,900 --> 01:34:23,900 body that counts it's what you put on it 2117 01:34:27,910 --> 01:34:25,910 as well why not use an all-natural 2118 01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:27,920 healthy mineral base makeup that 2119 01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:30,290 actually benefits your skin once you 2120 01:34:34,210 --> 01:34:32,330 experience the airiness and flawless 2121 01:34:36,430 --> 01:34:34,220 coverage of youngevity mineral makeup 2122 01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:36,440 you will never use anything else with 2123 01:34:39,940 --> 01:34:38,210 youngevity the perception of your 2124 01:34:41,980 --> 01:34:39,950 complexion will be natural perfection 2125 01:34:44,950 --> 01:34:41,990 animal friendly mineral makeup at 2126 01:34:47,860 --> 01:34:44,960 Marylou health that's ma RI lu health 2127 01:34:51,780 --> 01:34:47,870 calm or call eight five five three two 2128 01:34:58,180 --> 01:34:55,300 hi this is Ted Phillips listening to the 2129 01:35:07,960 --> 01:34:58,190 Bearcat and it's as good as it gets 2130 01:35:10,990 --> 01:35:07,970 believe me what we're doing here folks 2131 01:35:13,300 --> 01:35:11,000 is not just repeat case histories over 2132 01:35:16,300 --> 01:35:13,310 and over again but trying to assess 2133 01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:16,310 what's really going on and seeing what 2134 01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:18,650 types of UFO phenomena we're confronting 2135 01:35:23,650 --> 01:35:21,290 and whether we can come up with some 2136 01:35:25,450 --> 01:35:23,660 answers or maybe there are no answers 2137 01:35:27,850 --> 01:35:25,460 and that's what makes it even more 2138 01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:27,860 complicated Jerome Clark joining us with 2139 01:35:33,610 --> 01:35:30,410 Jean and Chris what I'm hearing Jerry is 2140 01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:33,620 is you're coming down almost uh you know 2141 01:35:39,460 --> 01:35:36,530 where Jacques Vallee kind of ended up in 2142 01:35:42,610 --> 01:35:39,470 he has public involvement with ufology 2143 01:35:45,370 --> 01:35:42,620 in that you know he sort of ascribed a 2144 01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:45,380 cultural thermostat to the phenomenon 2145 01:35:51,700 --> 01:35:48,730 that it would supply it would supply 2146 01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:51,710 experiences when the culture needed to 2147 01:35:55,510 --> 01:35:53,330 be heated up and then when the culture 2148 01:35:58,000 --> 01:35:55,520 was is heated up then then it tends to 2149 01:36:00,460 --> 01:35:58,010 pull back almost like a thermostat on a 2150 01:36:03,670 --> 01:36:00,470 heating and cooling system and he 2151 01:36:05,260 --> 01:36:03,680 related that to culture so it sounds 2152 01:36:06,790 --> 01:36:05,270 like you're almost falling falling along 2153 01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:06,800 those lines that you're looking at 2154 01:36:15,340 --> 01:36:12,370 something that that is it go ahead no I 2155 01:36:18,190 --> 01:36:15,350 mean I respect that so he and I are 2156 01:36:21,070 --> 01:36:18,200 friendly and he's a great thinker yes 2157 01:36:23,530 --> 01:36:21,080 you know it's contributed to a lot of 2158 01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:23,540 things to her understanding that I think 2159 01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:27,290 that hypothesis goes to put it mildly 2160 01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:30,530 beyond the evidence that's just wildly 2161 01:36:36,790 --> 01:36:33,530 speculative and I don't think we have 2162 01:36:38,860 --> 01:36:36,800 any clue why these things happen I mean 2163 01:36:40,990 --> 01:36:38,870 we don't even really have a vocabulary 2164 01:36:44,290 --> 01:36:41,000 but I talked about experience anomalies 2165 01:36:47,500 --> 01:36:44,300 I just struggle for some vocabulary you 2166 01:36:48,040 --> 01:36:47,510 know what we think without even thinking 2167 01:36:51,130 --> 01:36:48,050 about it 2168 01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:51,140 that something is true or it's not true 2169 01:36:58,140 --> 01:36:53,650 well what if there's a third category 2170 01:37:01,960 --> 01:36:58,150 where those delineations don't apply 2171 01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:01,970 that that something is true and false at 2172 01:37:08,010 --> 01:37:05,090 the same time as it exists in some 2173 01:37:12,430 --> 01:37:08,020 and I think that extraordinary 2174 01:37:14,260 --> 01:37:12,440 encounters fall into that zone and we 2175 01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:14,270 don't have a vocabulary we have a really 2176 01:37:17,890 --> 01:37:16,130 hard time and manual there is a term 2177 01:37:20,410 --> 01:37:17,900 it's called the Terrier it's not 2178 01:37:23,170 --> 01:37:20,420 necessarily an event the trickster is 2179 01:37:25,180 --> 01:37:23,180 probably our most concrete liminal force 2180 01:37:28,660 --> 01:37:25,190 that we've been able to language and and 2181 01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:28,670 and put a tag on so it almost sounds 2182 01:37:33,970 --> 01:37:30,650 like there's some sort of trickster ish 2183 01:37:36,040 --> 01:37:33,980 agenda going on well I agree with the 2184 01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:36,050 tricks Trish I don't know what how you 2185 01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:38,090 establish there's an agenda going on 2186 01:37:44,650 --> 01:37:40,970 there just these experiences which may 2187 01:37:47,290 --> 01:37:44,660 or may not being something maybe flex 2188 01:37:51,820 --> 01:37:47,300 some larger order or they just could be 2189 01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:51,830 just meaningless junk we don't know but 2190 01:37:58,260 --> 01:37:55,250 I don't ascribe intentionality to it 2191 01:38:00,610 --> 01:37:58,270 because I don't know what that 2192 01:38:04,540 --> 01:38:00,620 intentionality would be I don't even 2193 01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:04,550 know that it's necessary it's just we 2194 01:38:12,940 --> 01:38:08,330 can see its effects on individual people 2195 01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:12,950 and maybe in some ways these feed into 2196 01:38:17,890 --> 01:38:15,440 religious beliefs enough in a religion 2197 01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:17,900 is established obviously that affects 2198 01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:20,770 culture and history civilization and 2199 01:38:27,450 --> 01:38:24,370 people's way of living in the world but 2200 01:38:30,220 --> 01:38:27,460 there's no way of knowing whether 2201 01:38:32,590 --> 01:38:30,230 phenomenon was just something that we 2202 01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:32,600 made a bit on our own well why do so 2203 01:38:38,020 --> 01:38:35,210 many abductees report conversations and 2204 01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:38,030 interactions that talk about how you 2205 01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:40,130 know we're putting our ecosystem in 2206 01:38:46,330 --> 01:38:43,730 peril with with radiation and and look 2207 01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:46,340 at Fukushima I mean as an embodiment of 2208 01:38:52,450 --> 01:38:48,970 that of that particular admonishment and 2209 01:38:56,650 --> 01:38:52,460 there's this constant thread that seems 2210 01:38:59,010 --> 01:38:56,660 to go through these experiences of the 2211 01:39:01,360 --> 01:38:59,020 phenomena in terms of interactions of 2212 01:39:04,150 --> 01:39:01,370 putting the environment in peril I I 2213 01:39:07,090 --> 01:39:04,160 would say that that suggests to me that 2214 01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:07,100 there's some sort of agenda there or it 2215 01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:10,370 could just completely flecked societal 2216 01:39:14,830 --> 01:39:12,770 concerns so we all hear about it you 2217 01:39:16,910 --> 01:39:14,840 know any rational person is concerned 2218 01:39:20,180 --> 01:39:16,920 about the state of the environment 2219 01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:20,190 the earth ecosystem and you know you 2220 01:39:25,580 --> 01:39:22,410 could have dreams about those you could 2221 01:39:27,410 --> 01:39:25,590 have dreams about anything and also the 2222 01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:27,420 fact is that there are just a whole lot 2223 01:39:32,150 --> 01:39:29,730 of books written about the abduction 2224 01:39:32,480 --> 01:39:32,160 phenomenon their television shows and so 2225 01:39:34,430 --> 01:39:32,490 on 2226 01:39:39,110 --> 01:39:34,440 and this is sort of a loop that feeds 2227 01:39:40,670 --> 01:39:39,120 into people's dreams and experience so 2228 01:39:43,100 --> 01:39:40,680 they hear about abductions they read a 2229 01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:43,110 book by Whitley Strieber by David Jacobs 2230 01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:46,410 by Budd Hopkins and they dream about 2231 01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:47,250 such things 2232 01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:49,170 yeah they don't even necessarily have to 2233 01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:50,850 read those books because it's just in 2234 01:39:57,350 --> 01:39:53,610 the air you know you can go into a bar 2235 01:40:01,280 --> 01:39:57,360 and sit down start talking to get next 2236 01:40:03,530 --> 01:40:01,290 to you and you know about UFOs and you 2237 01:40:06,890 --> 01:40:03,540 will know about abduction yeah I think 2238 01:40:12,340 --> 01:40:06,900 that if I say these things are not 2239 01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:12,350 unreal they're just stuff that is built 2240 01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:15,810 really anomalous stuff that is 2241 01:40:23,570 --> 01:40:19,050 experienced out of certain themes in the 2242 01:40:25,790 --> 01:40:23,580 culture and 500 years ago cultural 2243 01:40:28,010 --> 01:40:25,800 themes were different and people have 2244 01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:28,020 different kinds of kinds of entities 2245 01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:30,290 that that didn't involve for example 2246 01:40:35,690 --> 01:40:32,690 extraterrestrials coming here and 2247 01:40:37,580 --> 01:40:35,700 technologically constructed vehicles but 2248 01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:37,590 they had some kind of understanding of 2249 01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:41,130 what the other rule was like and they 2250 01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:43,050 often framed that in terms of the fairy 2251 01:40:47,630 --> 01:40:46,410 realm and people really experienced it 2252 01:40:50,540 --> 01:40:47,640 it didn't mean that fairies really 2253 01:40:53,420 --> 01:40:50,550 existed but it did mean that people had 2254 01:40:55,100 --> 01:40:53,430 real experiences of them and experiences 2255 01:40:58,100 --> 01:40:55,110 that are really difficult to explain in 2256 01:40:59,600 --> 01:40:58,110 terms of current knowledge but then I'm 2257 01:41:02,090 --> 01:40:59,610 still trying to understand this you 2258 01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:02,100 can't assume then that maybe some of 2259 01:41:06,830 --> 01:41:04,290 these experiences do present physical 2260 01:41:11,630 --> 01:41:06,840 effects and that takes us back to the 2261 01:41:17,750 --> 01:41:11,640 event driven phenomenon of UFOs well it 2262 01:41:21,250 --> 01:41:17,760 gives the the hardcore cases but seem to 2263 01:41:23,780 --> 01:41:21,260 me to be extraordinary suggestive and I 2264 01:41:27,140 --> 01:41:23,790 and and from some point of view even 2265 01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:27,150 proof depending on how you define proof 2266 01:41:33,109 --> 01:41:29,760 and I often wonder 2267 01:41:36,169 --> 01:41:33,119 whether historians and scientists 2268 01:41:38,509 --> 01:41:36,179 looking back at the mid 20th century and 2269 01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:38,519 our in our time and early 21st century 2270 01:41:45,500 --> 01:41:42,090 and think why couldn't scientists at 2271 01:41:47,449 --> 01:41:45,510 that time have figured out from these 2272 01:41:49,009 --> 01:41:47,459 some of these extraordinarily evidential 2273 01:41:51,469 --> 01:41:49,019 UFO cases the next address the 2274 01:41:55,580 --> 01:41:51,479 visitation was occurring what was the 2275 01:41:57,620 --> 01:41:55,590 blind spot in my opinion as someone who 2276 01:42:01,580 --> 01:41:57,630 is a historian of this controversy I 2277 01:42:03,949 --> 01:42:01,590 think he could make a case that that by 2278 01:42:07,219 --> 01:42:03,959 the late 1940s certainly no later than 2279 01:42:10,540 --> 01:42:07,229 the national side ingen Washington 2280 01:42:15,259 --> 01:42:10,550 National sightings in 1952 that any 2281 01:42:18,529 --> 01:42:15,269 reasonable person including a scientist 2282 01:42:21,439 --> 01:42:18,539 looking at this would not have said yes 2283 01:42:24,609 --> 01:42:21,449 somebody else is in our atmosphere and 2284 01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:24,619 their vehicles can be traced on radar 2285 01:42:29,779 --> 01:42:27,449 you know and they could be seen by 2286 01:42:32,509 --> 01:42:29,789 multiple witnesses and so on and so on 2287 01:42:35,029 --> 01:42:32,519 they leave traces when they land on the 2288 01:42:36,949 --> 01:42:35,039 ground they sometimes burn witnesses you 2289 01:42:40,790 --> 01:42:36,959 know this is somebody's technology and 2290 01:42:43,459 --> 01:42:40,800 we can establish the existence of these 2291 01:42:46,819 --> 01:42:43,469 visitors just from studying the 2292 01:42:50,330 --> 01:42:46,829 immeasurable effects that their their 2293 01:42:52,850 --> 01:42:50,340 craft produce on witnesses and on the 2294 01:42:57,020 --> 01:42:52,860 environment you could have made a case 2295 01:42:58,729 --> 01:42:57,030 as the night early 1950s that yes this 2296 01:43:02,779 --> 01:42:58,739 was going on and we have good evidence 2297 01:43:05,629 --> 01:43:02,789 of it it's just that nobody with the 2298 01:43:08,180 --> 01:43:05,639 resources or the power could make 2299 01:43:09,529 --> 01:43:08,190 something of this we'd go near it as far 2300 01:43:12,770 --> 01:43:09,539 as we know I mean there could have been 2301 01:43:14,629 --> 01:43:12,780 real secret projects but we don't know 2302 01:43:16,459 --> 01:43:14,639 that anybody really took that hard 2303 01:43:19,899 --> 01:43:16,469 evidence other than the scattered 2304 01:43:22,549 --> 01:43:19,909 serious UFO investigator the scattered 2305 01:43:26,629 --> 01:43:22,559 powerless scientists working on in his 2306 01:43:29,120 --> 01:43:26,639 spare time and to the disapproval of his 2307 01:43:31,729 --> 01:43:29,130 colleagues I mean the fact that we don't 2308 01:43:34,189 --> 01:43:31,739 understand the quarry awful phenomenons 2309 01:43:39,890 --> 01:43:34,199 in 2013 2310 01:43:41,719 --> 01:43:39,900 perhaps that speaks volumes yeah I think 2311 01:43:42,900 --> 01:43:41,729 that was a solvable problem I think it 2312 01:43:44,970 --> 01:43:42,910 still is it 2313 01:43:48,210 --> 01:43:44,980 needs the expertise and the resources of 2314 01:43:50,790 --> 01:43:48,220 laboratories and you know I think that's 2315 01:43:53,070 --> 01:43:50,800 probably the experience end of it the 2316 01:43:56,570 --> 01:43:53,080 highest ranges end of it probably 2317 01:44:00,120 --> 01:43:56,580 requires a considerable rethinking of 2318 01:44:03,750 --> 01:44:00,130 almost everything we assume about how 2319 01:44:06,210 --> 01:44:03,760 the world works but as I say that we 2320 01:44:10,250 --> 01:44:06,220 don't really even have a vocabulary for 2321 01:44:15,020 --> 01:44:10,260 these extraordinary stories experiences 2322 01:44:21,120 --> 01:44:17,400 another question which we can maybe take 2323 01:44:22,500 --> 01:44:21,130 up in our next segment yeah unless you 2324 01:44:24,750 --> 01:44:22,510 want to respond to this but we have only 2325 01:44:26,790 --> 01:44:24,760 about 40 seconds left before we split so 2326 01:44:28,620 --> 01:44:26,800 I wanted to just raise this you can 2327 01:44:32,190 --> 01:44:28,630 discuss this and other possibilities our 2328 01:44:34,650 --> 01:44:32,200 next segment which is okay maybe the 2329 01:44:37,110 --> 01:44:34,660 government has all these years been 2330 01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:37,120 truthful they don't accept UFOs as real 2331 01:44:41,820 --> 01:44:39,250 they're not interested in looking at any 2332 01:44:43,350 --> 01:44:41,830 further evidence and that's it or we 2333 01:44:46,620 --> 01:44:43,360 look at the other possibility which 2334 01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:46,630 people who want disclosure will continue 2335 01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:48,880 to assert which is that the government 2336 01:44:53,580 --> 01:44:51,010 does have some inkling that something 2337 01:44:55,620 --> 01:44:53,590 weird is going on they may or may not 2338 01:44:58,590 --> 01:44:55,630 know what is causing those weird things 2339 01:45:01,230 --> 01:44:58,600 to go on and that's they keep it from us 2340 01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:01,240 in which case how do we find out and 2341 01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:02,770 then we go back to the question of 2342 01:45:08,040 --> 01:45:05,170 Roswell again what about the leaks from 2343 01:45:10,470 --> 01:45:08,050 the whistleblowers is that a way of 2344 01:45:12,810 --> 01:45:10,480 getting information and why wouldn't 2345 01:45:14,940 --> 01:45:12,820 there be whistleblowers if there was 2346 01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:14,950 something to blow the whistle about 2347 01:45:21,030 --> 01:45:17,530 right we have Jerome Clark joining gene 2348 01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:21,040 and Chris you're in the para guest 2349 01:45:34,959 --> 01:45:31,780 the GC and radio network providing the 2350 01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:34,969 world with hard-hitting talk radio G C 2351 01:45:41,350 --> 01:45:39,650 and great talk radio starts here hi this 2352 01:45:43,810 --> 01:45:41,360 is Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen 2353 01:45:46,450 --> 01:45:43,820 to GCN programs on the goal I have great 2354 01:45:48,669 --> 01:45:46,460 news g ZN has created a droid and iphone 2355 01:45:50,979 --> 01:45:48,679 application and it's free just as easy 2356 01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:50,989 as going to GC and live.com click on the 2357 01:45:54,280 --> 01:45:52,880 banner and download before you know it 2358 01:45:56,320 --> 01:45:54,290 you'll be listening to your favorite 2359 01:45:58,090 --> 01:45:56,330 hard-hitting GCN shows live around 2360 01:46:00,970 --> 01:45:58,100 demand right on your droid or iphone 2361 01:46:02,950 --> 01:46:00,980 24/7 and on the go so download the droid 2362 01:46:04,899 --> 01:46:02,960 an iphone app free by clicking on the 2363 01:46:06,910 --> 01:46:04,909 banner at juicy and live.com thanks 2364 01:46:09,340 --> 01:46:06,920 again for listening to GC and live.com 2365 01:46:10,780 --> 01:46:09,350 again that's juicy and live.com we the 2366 01:46:12,879 --> 01:46:10,790 people grow cotton wheat fabric 2367 01:46:14,500 --> 01:46:12,889 engraving can bed strips and fibers to 2368 01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:14,510 protect from counterfeit than carding to 2369 01:46:16,689 --> 01:46:16,250 a private bank having a led back at 2370 01:46:18,490 --> 01:46:16,699 interest 2371 01:46:20,169 --> 01:46:18,500 forcing taxes to service debt this 2372 01:46:21,790 --> 01:46:20,179 capitalism what was jefferson correct 2373 01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:21,800 when stating a central bank issuing the 2374 01:46:24,550 --> 01:46:23,449 public currency is a greater menace to 2375 01:46:25,930 --> 01:46:24,560 the liberties of the people than a 2376 01:46:27,370 --> 01:46:25,940 standing army today understand i'm 2377 01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:27,380 placing a free silver dollar in a book 2378 01:46:32,649 --> 01:46:29,210 that explains our monetary system call 2379 01:46:35,830 --> 01:46:32,659 for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time 2380 01:46:41,320 --> 01:46:35,840 to understand the system call 866 to 237 2381 01:46:43,660 --> 01:46:41,330 that's 800 686 to 237 these days so many 2382 01:46:45,970 --> 01:46:43,670 suffer from heartburn stomach ulcers and 2383 01:46:47,830 --> 01:46:45,980 acid reflux and most never realize it is 2384 01:46:49,930 --> 01:46:47,840 the high acidity within the body that 2385 01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:49,940 causes their discomfort while selective 2386 01:46:55,840 --> 01:46:52,850 diet choices can help Alka vision plasma 2387 01:46:57,729 --> 01:46:55,850 pH drops can really make a change a few 2388 01:46:59,860 --> 01:46:57,739 drops added to water can optimize your 2389 01:47:01,689 --> 01:46:59,870 body's pH level ridding you of harmful 2390 01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:01,699 waste and acid promoting health and 2391 01:47:06,310 --> 01:47:04,489 restoring vibrance and energy healthy pH 2392 01:47:08,350 --> 01:47:06,320 levels make all the difference 2393 01:47:10,810 --> 01:47:08,360 high acidity can also cause depression 2394 01:47:13,660 --> 01:47:10,820 insomnia and irritability Alka vision 2395 01:47:15,149 --> 01:47:13,670 plasma pH drops bring you vital balance 2396 01:47:17,320 --> 01:47:15,159 that can be truly life-changing 2397 01:47:19,570 --> 01:47:17,330 alkalizing boosts immune response 2398 01:47:21,970 --> 01:47:19,580 reduces headaches and cramping and even 2399 01:47:23,979 --> 01:47:21,980 helps prevent bone loss this is simple 2400 01:47:27,129 --> 01:47:23,989 science that helps your body do what's 2401 01:47:30,700 --> 01:47:27,139 natural order your alkaviva pH drops for 2402 01:47:32,629 --> 01:47:30,710 just 29.95 at Alka vision calm ALK a 2403 01:47:36,439 --> 01:47:32,639 vision calm or 2404 01:47:39,149 --> 01:47:36,449 851 876 15 alkalize your body 2405 01:47:46,300 --> 01:47:39,159 supercharge your health at Alka vision 2406 01:47:54,340 --> 01:47:50,000 welcome back to the para cast the gold 2407 01:48:02,690 --> 01:47:54,350 standard of paranormal radio and now 2408 01:48:05,450 --> 01:48:02,700 here's Jane Steinberg with Jean and 2409 01:48:07,130 --> 01:48:05,460 Chris in the para cast we're spending a 2410 01:48:09,710 --> 01:48:07,140 few more seconds with Jerome Clark 2411 01:48:12,770 --> 01:48:09,720 longtime UFO historian author of a 2412 01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:12,780 number of really fascinating books that 2413 01:48:17,180 --> 01:48:14,610 you won't find on the bestseller lists 2414 01:48:19,190 --> 01:48:17,190 but that's very unfortunate so I know 2415 01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:19,200 Chris was mentioning the issue of 2416 01:48:23,300 --> 01:48:21,170 languaging and I was talking about 2417 01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:23,310 disclosure whether the government has 2418 01:48:26,810 --> 01:48:25,290 guilty knowledge of what's going on you 2419 01:48:29,470 --> 01:48:26,820 have some assessments for any of that 2420 01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:29,480 well when we talk about the government 2421 01:48:36,050 --> 01:48:33,690 cool unquote in terms of secret UFO 2422 01:48:39,979 --> 01:48:36,060 knowledge remember the government is a 2423 01:48:42,770 --> 01:48:39,989 huge entity and I would say that if 2424 01:48:47,270 --> 01:48:42,780 there's significant UFO knowledge it's 2425 01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:47,280 squirreled away in some small possibly 2426 01:48:53,990 --> 01:48:50,730 off-the-books agency and it certainly 2427 01:48:57,320 --> 01:48:54,000 doesn't seem to affect national defense 2428 01:48:59,450 --> 01:48:57,330 policy and so if there is some little 2429 01:49:01,400 --> 01:48:59,460 group that's monitoring this and has 2430 01:49:03,890 --> 01:49:01,410 some interesting information because 2431 01:49:06,610 --> 01:49:03,900 it's high declassified files I think 2432 01:49:09,770 --> 01:49:06,620 that it's clear that this agency has 2433 01:49:12,140 --> 01:49:09,780 told whomever it reports to maybe the 2434 01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:12,150 President or the secretary defense but 2435 01:49:20,810 --> 01:49:15,360 whenever this is is not a threat to 2436 01:49:23,870 --> 01:49:20,820 national security and we can safely act 2437 01:49:26,660 --> 01:49:23,880 as if it isn't here and we all know 2438 01:49:29,690 --> 01:49:26,670 there are other variations of cover-up 2439 01:49:32,540 --> 01:49:29,700 ideas and some of them quite dramatic 2440 01:49:36,910 --> 01:49:32,550 and unbelievable and I think that if 2441 01:49:40,700 --> 01:49:36,920 there is somewhere official knowledge 2442 01:49:42,440 --> 01:49:40,710 it isn't profound it's just enough to 2443 01:49:45,620 --> 01:49:42,450 say that yes this is strange and our 2444 01:49:47,750 --> 01:49:45,630 pilots for example experienced this but 2445 01:49:48,290 --> 01:49:47,760 we don't think the earth is going to be 2446 01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:48,300 invaded 2447 01:49:54,229 --> 01:49:50,970 Robert Hastings work and Bob Salas and 2448 01:49:56,540 --> 01:49:54,239 and the Malmstrom and Offutt missile 2449 01:49:58,620 --> 01:49:56,550 fields incursions do you think that that 2450 01:50:01,160 --> 01:49:58,630 maybe put a ripple through 2451 01:50:03,570 --> 01:50:01,170 you some segments of the defense 2452 01:50:04,979 --> 01:50:03,580 structure of our of our government do 2453 01:50:08,189 --> 01:50:04,989 you think they took that seriously and 2454 01:50:11,419 --> 01:50:08,199 and if not why well one would think so 2455 01:50:14,189 --> 01:50:11,429 but apparently not seriously enough to 2456 01:50:17,340 --> 01:50:14,199 affect you know national defense policy 2457 01:50:19,680 --> 01:50:17,350 to move it toward a you know posture we 2458 01:50:21,629 --> 01:50:19,690 have to occur ourselves for you know 2459 01:50:24,240 --> 01:50:21,639 invading aliens we know that's not 2460 01:50:26,580 --> 01:50:24,250 happening and so yeah they probably 2461 01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:26,590 somewhere this was noticed and commented 2462 01:50:33,030 --> 01:50:31,090 on and heads were scratched and concerns 2463 01:50:35,129 --> 01:50:33,040 were expressed but it doesn't seem to 2464 01:50:36,140 --> 01:50:35,139 visibly to have gone anywhere beyond 2465 01:50:40,399 --> 01:50:36,150 that 2466 01:50:43,200 --> 01:50:40,409 so maybe UFOs are just a way for male 2467 01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:43,210 Americans and positions of power to lose 2468 01:50:49,350 --> 01:50:45,690 their hair quicker from all the heads 2469 01:50:51,300 --> 01:50:49,360 yeah and I suspect that over time a lot 2470 01:50:52,910 --> 01:50:51,310 less hair has been lost I think the 2471 01:50:55,169 --> 01:50:52,920 whole thing has just been shrugged off 2472 01:50:56,640 --> 01:50:55,179 you know he can find people within 2473 01:50:59,010 --> 01:50:56,650 government just he can find people 2474 01:51:00,450 --> 01:50:59,020 anywhere who are puzzled by UFO 2475 01:51:02,780 --> 01:51:00,460 sightings and interested and no one 2476 01:51:05,820 --> 01:51:02,790 think they mean something interesting 2477 01:51:08,879 --> 01:51:05,830 but maybe it's applied affected actual 2478 01:51:14,810 --> 01:51:08,889 policy maybe it's a plot by Bosley hair 2479 01:51:18,870 --> 01:51:14,820 for men not working very well is it oh 2480 01:51:23,070 --> 01:51:18,880 well but you kind of wonder here this is 2481 01:51:25,860 --> 01:51:23,080 happening for so long you kind of think 2482 01:51:28,590 --> 01:51:25,870 that after all these years why wouldn't 2483 01:51:30,930 --> 01:51:28,600 there be enough to interest people in 2484 01:51:32,820 --> 01:51:30,940 the government to take it serious you 2485 01:51:35,340 --> 01:51:32,830 could argue the reverse but the longer 2486 01:51:38,850 --> 01:51:35,350 it goes on without affecting anything 2487 01:51:41,100 --> 01:51:38,860 that we can see except you know maybe 2488 01:51:43,110 --> 01:51:41,110 showing up on radar from time to time or 2489 01:51:46,500 --> 01:51:43,120 startling somebody is it hovers over a 2490 01:51:50,300 --> 01:51:46,510 country road that it doesn't ever go 2491 01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:50,310 beyond that so the longer it's ignored 2492 01:51:56,310 --> 01:51:52,810 validation there is for the policy of 2493 01:51:57,870 --> 01:51:56,320 ignoring it another reason to ignore it 2494 01:52:01,680 --> 01:51:57,880 for the future because we have more 2495 01:52:04,290 --> 01:52:01,690 important concerns which is people who 2496 01:52:05,490 --> 01:52:04,300 just won't grow up and get along Chris 2497 01:52:07,050 --> 01:52:05,500 we have a few questions from our 2498 01:52:10,439 --> 01:52:07,060 audience you want to start asking some 2499 01:52:12,270 --> 01:52:10,449 of those yeah I would like to do that 2500 01:52:13,979 --> 01:52:12,280 and we've answered a few of 2501 01:52:17,040 --> 01:52:13,989 questions that have been posted at forum 2502 01:52:19,529 --> 01:52:17,050 dr. Peric ascom already with our very 2503 01:52:22,950 --> 01:52:19,539 enlivened conversation here but we have 2504 01:52:27,149 --> 01:52:22,960 a fairly new addition to our forum 2505 01:52:29,459 --> 01:52:27,159 family Gary Griffey who asks a good 2506 01:52:32,279 --> 01:52:29,469 question my question for mr. Clark 2507 01:52:34,589 --> 01:52:32,289 refers to ancient or historical UFO 2508 01:52:36,359 --> 01:52:34,599 reports is there a good source for 2509 01:52:37,740 --> 01:52:36,369 information on that subject for people 2510 01:52:40,950 --> 01:52:37,750 that want to explore it and do some 2511 01:52:43,260 --> 01:52:40,960 digging on their own besides your your 2512 01:52:46,379 --> 01:52:43,270 magnum opus the UFO encyclopedia of 2513 01:52:48,299 --> 01:52:46,389 course well one thing that's happened 2514 01:52:50,669 --> 01:52:48,309 this is this is really the major 2515 01:52:53,879 --> 01:52:50,679 development in ufology and fourteen 2516 01:52:56,609 --> 01:52:53,889 studies for the last decade and that is 2517 01:52:58,649 --> 01:52:56,619 that more and more newspaper archives 2518 01:53:01,709 --> 01:52:58,659 are being opened up and so they're 2519 01:53:03,359 --> 01:53:01,719 accessible online and you can some of 2520 01:53:05,939 --> 01:53:03,369 this you can get for free some of it you 2521 01:53:08,220 --> 01:53:05,949 have to subscribe to to a service that 2522 01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:08,230 will cost you anywhere from maybe 50 60 2523 01:53:14,129 --> 01:53:11,050 bucks to more than 100 bucks a year and 2524 01:53:16,500 --> 01:53:14,139 you get access to hundreds even 2525 01:53:18,540 --> 01:53:16,510 thousands of old newspapers and you 2526 01:53:21,359 --> 01:53:18,550 don't have to go through every page 2527 01:53:24,240 --> 01:53:21,369 trying to find this a weird story you 2528 01:53:26,310 --> 01:53:24,250 just have to do a search type in the 2529 01:53:30,180 --> 01:53:26,320 word you're looking for like something 2530 01:53:35,939 --> 01:53:30,190 like ball of light or whatever and you 2531 01:53:38,220 --> 01:53:35,949 will be get access to dozen to decades 2532 01:53:41,669 --> 01:53:38,230 and maybe even a couple of centuries a 2533 01:53:45,060 --> 01:53:41,679 ball of light stories in old newspapers 2534 01:53:47,129 --> 01:53:45,070 and I actually wrote it and early on 2535 01:53:50,399 --> 01:53:47,139 when this was still new I wrote a book 2536 01:53:53,189 --> 01:53:50,409 for a be the reference publisher 2537 01:53:56,160 --> 01:53:53,199 abc-clio will call a natural phenomena 2538 01:53:59,220 --> 01:53:56,170 which was basically consisted of a whole 2539 01:54:01,950 --> 01:53:59,230 bunch of clippings of 40 and 40 enlike 2540 01:54:03,779 --> 01:54:01,960 phenomena reported in newspapers in the 2541 01:54:06,180 --> 01:54:03,789 nineteenth century and early 20th 2542 01:54:09,120 --> 01:54:06,190 centuries and and the number of 2543 01:54:11,970 --> 01:54:09,130 newspapers available online has just 2544 01:54:13,950 --> 01:54:11,980 grown exponentially every day more and 2545 01:54:15,629 --> 01:54:13,960 more of them come online and if you know 2546 01:54:18,419 --> 01:54:15,639 where to look you subscribe to the right 2547 01:54:21,450 --> 01:54:18,429 services you can look to your heart's 2548 01:54:24,720 --> 01:54:21,460 content for any kind of weirdness you're 2549 01:54:25,770 --> 01:54:24,730 looking for if it's from 1947 to the 2550 01:54:28,950 --> 01:54:25,780 present 2551 01:54:30,540 --> 01:54:28,960 look for flying saucers or UFOs before 2552 01:54:32,220 --> 01:54:30,550 that of course they weren't using words 2553 01:54:33,990 --> 01:54:32,230 like that but you can figure out the 2554 01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:34,000 words that they were using to describe 2555 01:54:38,370 --> 01:54:36,850 what we now would call UFOs and just 2556 01:54:41,790 --> 01:54:38,380 search for them and you'll be surprised 2557 01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:41,800 what comes up and what's like what is 2558 01:54:48,120 --> 01:54:45,850 what what the reports how they're like 2559 01:54:50,550 --> 01:54:48,130 what we see now and how they're unlike 2560 01:54:53,430 --> 01:54:50,560 what we see now and so you get a real 2561 01:54:56,300 --> 01:54:53,440 kind of comparison in contrast of the 2562 01:54:59,070 --> 01:54:56,310 historical you opal like phenomena and 2563 01:55:01,530 --> 01:54:59,080 present-day UFO phenomena it's utterly 2564 01:55:06,980 --> 01:55:01,540 fascinating but that's how you get to 2565 01:55:09,060 --> 01:55:06,990 old newspapers old stories of UFOs and 2566 01:55:11,100 --> 01:55:09,070 we have that whole question of 2567 01:55:14,100 --> 01:55:11,110 languaging and terminology you have to 2568 01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:14,110 be able to interpret and read through 2569 01:55:18,720 --> 01:55:16,570 the languaging of the times to find out 2570 01:55:21,030 --> 01:55:18,730 if it's something viable but you know a 2571 01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:21,040 book that that has impressed me that's 2572 01:55:25,410 --> 01:55:22,810 come out within the last four or five 2573 01:55:28,830 --> 01:55:25,420 years is wonders in the sky by Chris 2574 01:55:31,410 --> 01:55:28,840 Abeka and Jacques Vallee at some of the 2575 01:55:34,410 --> 01:55:31,420 older reports obviously our little 2576 01:55:36,240 --> 01:55:34,420 tenuous and in in purely anecdotal but 2577 01:55:38,630 --> 01:55:36,250 but that's also a good place to start 2578 01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:38,640 there are some very very good 2579 01:55:45,680 --> 01:55:42,490 well-documented descriptions of events 2580 01:55:49,010 --> 01:55:45,690 in that well Chris runs an 2581 01:55:52,890 --> 01:55:49,020 invitation-only email list of people 2582 01:55:56,910 --> 01:55:52,900 involved in this kind of research in 2583 01:56:01,230 --> 01:55:56,920 online research into newspaper journal 2584 01:56:05,220 --> 01:56:01,240 magazine and other archives to find 3 2585 01:56:07,860 --> 01:56:05,230 1947 reports of UFO lore your 4 light 2586 01:56:11,820 --> 01:56:07,870 phenomena there's another invitation 2587 01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:11,830 list that Bob regarded of 14 times runs 2588 01:56:19,440 --> 01:56:15,370 and focuses on the non UFO but for tea 2589 01:56:22,140 --> 01:56:19,450 and stuff and Chris and Jacques Kallis 2590 01:56:25,260 --> 01:56:22,150 book which is I recommend as you say 2591 01:56:31,110 --> 01:56:25,270 it's a good book but that book came out 2592 01:56:33,560 --> 01:56:31,120 of the McBurney exchange project and so 2593 01:56:37,020 --> 01:56:33,570 there's there's actually focused 2594 01:56:39,270 --> 01:56:37,030 investigation focused gleaning of these 2595 01:56:43,080 --> 01:56:39,280 old archives from UFO 2596 01:56:45,180 --> 01:56:43,090 and 14 scholars today and there's just a 2597 01:56:48,930 --> 01:56:45,190 lot of incredibly interesting stuff 2598 01:56:51,180 --> 01:56:48,940 coming coming out yeah I totally agree I 2599 01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:51,190 think there's there's and that's a 2600 01:56:56,040 --> 01:56:53,770 really good question Gary and if you're 2601 01:56:57,930 --> 01:56:56,050 willing to put the time in because we're 2602 01:57:00,350 --> 01:56:57,940 talking about a very labor intensive 2603 01:57:03,150 --> 01:57:00,360 project here this is how it's actually 2604 01:57:06,030 --> 01:57:03,160 not like it used to be you know like you 2605 01:57:08,010 --> 01:57:06,040 say it's easier you'd have to drive some 2606 01:57:10,560 --> 01:57:08,020 distance to find an archive you have to 2607 01:57:12,900 --> 01:57:10,570 mess with microfilm or microfiche and 2608 01:57:15,870 --> 01:57:12,910 you'd have to look like like Faulkner 2609 01:57:18,900 --> 01:57:15,880 just look one page after another looking 2610 01:57:21,180 --> 01:57:18,910 for a sea serpent or light in the sky or 2611 01:57:23,250 --> 01:57:21,190 an airship or whatever but you don't 2612 01:57:25,980 --> 01:57:23,260 have to do that yes it still takes time 2613 01:57:27,030 --> 01:57:25,990 but it's a lot quicker a lot easier you 2614 01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:27,040 don't even have to leave your house 2615 01:57:31,980 --> 01:57:29,410 that's one way of keeping people from 2616 01:57:33,900 --> 01:57:31,990 getting out more we have to roam Clark 2617 01:57:41,310 --> 01:57:33,910 joining gene and Chris you're in the 2618 01:57:44,130 --> 01:57:41,320 para cast neighbors are you tired of 2619 01:57:47,880 --> 01:57:44,140 dealing with a slow web hosting provider 2620 01:57:50,520 --> 01:57:47,890 well check out a to hosting and they're 2621 01:57:55,140 --> 01:57:50,530 screaming fast Swift server platform 2622 01:57:58,290 --> 01:57:55,150 they even have SSDs at load pages 300% 2623 01:58:01,860 --> 01:57:58,300 faster than the competition ready to 2624 01:58:04,110 --> 01:58:01,870 give your Sinus speed boost well tell 2625 01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:04,120 you what neighbors head on over to a two 2626 01:58:11,940 --> 01:58:07,930 hosting.com that's a two that's number 2627 01:58:14,520 --> 01:58:11,950 two a2 hosting comm check out their 2628 01:58:16,860 --> 01:58:14,530 prime hosting account and get this 2629 01:58:19,260 --> 01:58:16,870 neighbors they're even giving you an 2630 01:58:22,290 --> 01:58:19,270 exclusive twenty five percent off 2631 01:58:23,280 --> 01:58:22,300 discount for all our listeners twenty 2632 01:58:25,830 --> 01:58:23,290 five percent 2633 01:58:30,810 --> 01:58:25,840 and remember their guru crew support 2634 01:58:33,660 --> 01:58:30,820 team is standing by 24/7 365 days a year 2635 01:58:36,060 --> 01:58:33,670 to answer any of your questions now to 2636 01:58:40,020 --> 01:58:36,070 get the discount use the coupon code 2637 01:58:42,090 --> 01:58:40,030 gene when you check out hi this is Gary 2638 01:58:44,100 --> 01:58:42,100 Cooper with Midas resources gold and 2639 01:58:46,110 --> 01:58:44,110 silver government shutdown in M 2640 01:58:48,420 --> 01:58:46,120 politicians entitlements looming 2641 01:58:50,070 --> 01:58:48,430 Obamacare the death of the US dollars 2642 01:58:51,689 --> 01:58:50,080 the global reserve currency is what 2643 01:58:53,040 --> 01:58:51,699 nobody wants to acknowledge 2644 01:58:54,689 --> 01:58:53,050 we have a debt bubble that cannot be 2645 01:58:56,340 --> 01:58:54,699 paid and will eventually crash the 2646 01:58:58,260 --> 01:58:56,350 dollar if you're concerned about keeping 2647 01:59:00,479 --> 01:58:58,270 your money why not consider storing your 2648 01:59:44,220 --> 01:59:00,489 wealth in gold and silver call me Gary 2649 01:59:48,000 --> 01:59:46,110 have you ever been treated unfairly by 2650 01:59:49,860 --> 01:59:48,010 someone have you ever been overcharged 2651 01:59:51,390 --> 01:59:49,870 for a repair have you ever signed a 2652 01:59:53,700 --> 01:59:51,400 contract or a document 2653 01:59:55,110 --> 01:59:53,710 worried about identity theft how many 2654 01:59:57,150 --> 01:59:55,120 times have you been in those unique 2655 01:59:58,740 --> 01:59:57,160 situations where you just wanted to call 2656 02:00:00,959 --> 01:59:58,750 an attorney to find out if you're right 2657 02:00:02,790 --> 02:00:00,969 or wrong or what your legal rights are 2658 02:00:04,260 --> 02:00:02,800 but every time you think about calling 2659 02:00:06,930 --> 02:00:04,270 an attorney what do you think about 2660 02:00:09,510 --> 02:00:06,940 first that's right who do you call and 2661 02:00:11,790 --> 02:00:09,520 how much will it cost our friends at 2662 02:00:14,700 --> 02:00:11,800 Legal Shield have found a solution with 2663 02:00:17,189 --> 02:00:14,710 a nationwide network of 6900 attorneys 2664 02:00:19,560 --> 02:00:17,199 who average 19 years of experience legal 2665 02:00:21,660 --> 02:00:19,570 shields law firms take over 40,000 calls 2666 02:00:24,120 --> 02:00:21,670 per week helping their members for less 2667 02:00:25,979 --> 02:00:24,130 than $20 per month you can have access 2668 02:00:27,990 --> 02:00:25,989 to legal shield on everything from the 2669 02:00:30,390 --> 02:00:28,000 trivial to the traumatic let legal 2670 02:00:31,680 --> 02:00:30,400 shield stand up for your rights at LS 2671 02:00:40,890 --> 02:00:31,690 protection calm 2672 02:00:43,110 --> 02:00:40,900 4 0 save 8 55 3 4 0 72 83 not all 2673 02:00:45,180 --> 02:00:43,120 protein powders are created equal one 2674 02:00:48,660 --> 02:00:45,190 world weighs the first cold temperature 2675 02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:48,670 processed 100% all-natural unrefined 2676 02:00:53,729 --> 02:00:51,610 bioactive grass pasture raised milk whey 2677 02:00:55,770 --> 02:00:53,739 protein far from being another ordinary 2678 02:00:57,689 --> 02:00:55,780 protein supplement one world way is a 2679 02:00:59,939 --> 02:00:57,699 full spectrum nutrition power food in 2680 02:01:01,650 --> 02:00:59,949 and of itself providing overall life 2681 02:01:03,190 --> 02:01:01,660 building benefits that touch virtually 2682 02:01:04,900 --> 02:01:03,200 every human's life that 2683 02:01:06,970 --> 02:01:04,910 protein supplements don't deliver on 2684 02:01:09,190 --> 02:01:06,980 what are the benefits boosts the immune 2685 02:01:11,080 --> 02:01:09,200 system anti-aging properties helps 2686 02:01:13,090 --> 02:01:11,090 detoxification helps lose body fat 2687 02:01:14,800 --> 02:01:13,100 supports excellent blood sugar levels 2688 02:01:17,020 --> 02:01:14,810 excellent for building muscle increases 2689 02:01:18,790 --> 02:01:17,030 in energy levels enhances the feelings 2690 02:01:21,460 --> 02:01:18,800 of youth energy for exercise and 2691 02:01:23,470 --> 02:01:21,470 recovery who's it for anyone wanting to 2692 02:01:25,990 --> 02:01:23,480 feel healthy and have energy busy people 2693 02:01:28,090 --> 02:01:26,000 office workers growing children students 2694 02:01:30,010 --> 02:01:28,100 teachers seniors people recovering from 2695 02:01:32,140 --> 02:01:30,020 illness and high performance athletes 2696 02:01:34,780 --> 02:01:32,150 call eight eight eight nine eight eight 2697 02:01:40,350 --> 02:01:34,790 three three two five or visit one world 2698 02:01:45,340 --> 02:01:43,330 we'd like to hear from you if you have a 2699 02:01:49,270 --> 02:01:45,350 comment or question about the para caste 2700 02:01:52,690 --> 02:01:49,280 sent it to news at the para caste calm 2701 02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:52,700 that's news at the para caste calm and 2702 02:01:58,110 --> 02:01:54,770 don't forget to visit our famous para 2703 02:02:02,650 --> 02:01:58,120 caste community forums at forum dot the 2704 02:02:04,690 --> 02:02:02,660 podcast.com sometimes of course online 2705 02:02:08,040 --> 02:02:04,700 research can be counterproductive 2706 02:02:10,570 --> 02:02:08,050 because you may give equal weight 2707 02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:10,580 everything which can cause problems we 2708 02:02:14,050 --> 02:02:12,170 have Jerome Clark joining us with Jean 2709 02:02:16,900 --> 02:02:14,060 and Chris and we're asking your 2710 02:02:19,420 --> 02:02:16,910 questions from forum dot the para cast 2711 02:02:21,820 --> 02:02:19,430 com anything further to say Jerry before 2712 02:02:23,890 --> 02:02:21,830 we go on to the next question well you 2713 02:02:25,810 --> 02:02:23,900 have to treat this stuff as folklore 2714 02:02:27,700 --> 02:02:25,820 because you can't prove it or you can't 2715 02:02:30,130 --> 02:02:27,710 this true but some stories are obviously 2716 02:02:33,730 --> 02:02:30,140 just made up some of them are easy to 2717 02:02:35,620 --> 02:02:33,740 recognize some are a ring of 2718 02:02:37,870 --> 02:02:35,630 authenticity even though you can't prove 2719 02:02:40,210 --> 02:02:37,880 it this seems like a real story and you 2720 02:02:43,360 --> 02:02:40,220 can also do research to find out if this 2721 02:02:45,700 --> 02:02:43,370 person actually existed you know you can 2722 02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:45,710 find that this person did indeed exist 2723 02:02:50,380 --> 02:02:47,930 he wasn't just made up by some prankster 2724 02:02:52,180 --> 02:02:50,390 and then there's a big mid-range of 2725 02:02:54,970 --> 02:02:52,190 stuff that you can neither prove nor 2726 02:02:57,160 --> 02:02:54,980 disprove it's possible or maybe not you 2727 02:02:59,170 --> 02:02:57,170 don't know it's just interesting but 2728 02:03:02,620 --> 02:02:59,180 basically you ended up treating it just 2729 02:03:05,020 --> 02:03:02,630 as this great body of folklore that that 2730 02:03:07,960 --> 02:03:05,030 in its totality gives you some general 2731 02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:07,970 idea of what people believe and/or 2732 02:03:13,750 --> 02:03:11,210 experience in you know a previous 2733 02:03:15,070 --> 02:03:13,760 century but all of that is valuable 2734 02:03:17,410 --> 02:03:15,080 here's another one 2735 02:03:19,750 --> 02:03:17,420 from burnt State whose uh you know a 2736 02:03:23,230 --> 02:03:19,760 frequent participant at forum doctor 2737 02:03:24,730 --> 02:03:23,240 para cast calm our on-line forum page 2738 02:03:26,980 --> 02:03:24,740 where you can ask questions of our 2739 02:03:28,720 --> 02:03:26,990 guests and this question is what are 2740 02:03:31,450 --> 02:03:28,730 your personal speculations gary 2741 02:03:33,910 --> 02:03:31,460 regarding the intentions of the UFO 2742 02:03:36,280 --> 02:03:33,920 phenomenon and what do you feel are at 2743 02:03:38,500 --> 02:03:36,290 significant effects on humanity to date 2744 02:03:40,150 --> 02:03:38,510 we've kind of been discussing this but 2745 02:03:42,550 --> 02:03:40,160 but do you think there is an agenda 2746 02:03:44,230 --> 02:03:42,560 behind it or is it something different 2747 02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:44,240 well let's talk about the core 2748 02:03:48,640 --> 02:03:46,970 phenomenon let's just say for the 2749 02:03:50,740 --> 02:03:48,650 purpose of discussion that these are 2750 02:03:52,750 --> 02:03:50,750 extraterrestrial visitors coming from 2751 02:03:54,430 --> 02:03:52,760 somewhere else in the galaxy i think 2752 02:03:57,760 --> 02:03:54,440 simply the very fact that they built 2753 02:03:59,470 --> 02:03:57,770 machines and they came here tells us 2754 02:04:01,540 --> 02:03:59,480 that they have a lot of things in common 2755 02:04:04,810 --> 02:04:01,550 with us they have curiosity they have 2756 02:04:06,700 --> 02:04:04,820 the capacity to device the technology 2757 02:04:09,070 --> 02:04:06,710 that takes them off the earth and 2758 02:04:11,470 --> 02:04:09,080 already this puts them and in the 2759 02:04:13,630 --> 02:04:11,480 neighborhood of what we're like if the 2760 02:04:15,850 --> 02:04:13,640 head of the curiosity to have developed 2761 02:04:18,610 --> 02:04:15,860 the science and technology that created 2762 02:04:21,280 --> 02:04:18,620 spacecraft that could vast distances and 2763 02:04:23,800 --> 02:04:21,290 find themselves to our little third Rock 2764 02:04:26,050 --> 02:04:23,810 from the Sun they're probably a more 2765 02:04:29,260 --> 02:04:26,060 like us than we would think and so I 2766 02:04:31,660 --> 02:04:29,270 will my presumption of course I can't 2767 02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:31,670 prove it this is all speculation is that 2768 02:04:35,710 --> 02:04:33,290 they're here out of scientific curiosity 2769 02:04:37,780 --> 02:04:35,720 just as you know I think it is 2770 02:04:40,290 --> 02:04:37,790 reasonable to compare them to us in that 2771 02:04:43,360 --> 02:04:40,300 sense that you don't have a technology 2772 02:04:45,850 --> 02:04:43,370 without curiosity don't have a science 2773 02:04:49,360 --> 02:04:45,860 without curiosity and a desire to 2774 02:04:51,190 --> 02:04:49,370 understand and learn and that's the kind 2775 02:04:53,500 --> 02:04:51,200 of thing that would bring them here I 2776 02:04:55,750 --> 02:04:53,510 mean they would be different from us in 2777 02:04:59,050 --> 02:04:55,760 all kinds of other ways I'm sure but I 2778 02:05:01,270 --> 02:04:59,060 think that that's the core you know we 2779 02:05:03,370 --> 02:05:01,280 have a lot in common with them ok well 2780 02:05:05,410 --> 02:05:03,380 the question would be then do the aliens 2781 02:05:07,180 --> 02:05:05,420 have a prime directive not to interfere 2782 02:05:09,490 --> 02:05:07,190 with the locals especially if they're 2783 02:05:11,170 --> 02:05:09,500 primitive locals or is there a point at 2784 02:05:13,060 --> 02:05:11,180 which they say well let's say hello or 2785 02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:13,070 maybe they have and nobody believes that 2786 02:05:17,380 --> 02:05:14,930 people who say they've met them well I 2787 02:05:19,060 --> 02:05:17,390 think that as far as we can tell there 2788 02:05:21,700 --> 02:05:19,070 is indeed something like a prime 2789 02:05:23,410 --> 02:05:21,710 directive I mean you know however you 2790 02:05:26,650 --> 02:05:23,420 want to term it but it's sort of a non 2791 02:05:28,980 --> 02:05:26,660 interference understanding they haven't 2792 02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:28,990 tried to take us over they haven't even 2793 02:05:34,150 --> 02:05:31,370 announced themselves in a way that would 2794 02:05:36,760 --> 02:05:34,160 be undeniable to all the scientists and 2795 02:05:39,820 --> 02:05:36,770 governments of the earth so they're here 2796 02:05:42,430 --> 02:05:39,830 watching us you know maybe they you know 2797 02:05:45,310 --> 02:05:42,440 they figured out that did it will not be 2798 02:05:47,170 --> 02:05:45,320 very long if we don't destroy ourselves 2799 02:05:49,510 --> 02:05:47,180 first that will be going out into space 2800 02:05:51,990 --> 02:05:49,520 I mean all these kinds of things that 2801 02:05:55,240 --> 02:05:52,000 you know then like Don Quijote 2802 02:05:56,950 --> 02:05:55,250 speculation kind of come back you know 2803 02:05:58,600 --> 02:05:56,960 when you begin to think about you know 2804 02:06:00,670 --> 02:05:58,610 we're discovering all these other 2805 02:06:02,890 --> 02:06:00,680 planets these earth-like planets there's 2806 02:06:05,200 --> 02:06:02,900 no question there's a lot of earth-like 2807 02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:05,210 planets out there into staggering 2808 02:06:11,440 --> 02:06:08,330 numbers it is not hard to believe that 2809 02:06:13,090 --> 02:06:11,450 many of them have evolved to the point 2810 02:06:14,860 --> 02:06:13,100 where they have technological 2811 02:06:17,770 --> 02:06:14,870 civilizations it's not hard to please 2812 02:06:19,720 --> 02:06:17,780 those civilizations would come our way 2813 02:06:22,690 --> 02:06:19,730 they wouldn't even have to come here to 2814 02:06:23,890 --> 02:06:22,700 know that there was life on Earth I mean 2815 02:06:25,660 --> 02:06:23,900 they could detect that from their 2816 02:06:28,180 --> 02:06:25,670 technology from where they are so they 2817 02:06:29,890 --> 02:06:28,190 don't have to fly around directionless 2818 02:06:32,530 --> 02:06:29,900 lead to the galaxy trying to find 2819 02:06:34,810 --> 02:06:32,540 something they would say this planet 2820 02:06:37,090 --> 02:06:34,820 gives every indication of having life 2821 02:06:38,860 --> 02:06:37,100 Island we see evidence of radio signals 2822 02:06:41,830 --> 02:06:38,870 and other evidence technologies 2823 02:06:43,990 --> 02:06:41,840 developed so we're going to go there the 2824 02:06:47,170 --> 02:06:44,000 extraterrestrial process is either true 2825 02:06:50,410 --> 02:06:47,180 or it's not but it's not illogical or 2826 02:06:54,220 --> 02:06:50,420 impossible it is a reasonable conclusion 2827 02:06:56,290 --> 02:06:54,230 one can draw from what we know now but 2828 02:06:58,600 --> 02:06:56,300 also you wonder here if there is a prime 2829 02:07:02,770 --> 02:06:58,610 directive not to interfere sometimes 2830 02:07:05,440 --> 02:07:02,780 just being seen interferes not as far as 2831 02:07:07,180 --> 02:07:05,450 we can tell so far they've been seen 2832 02:07:10,150 --> 02:07:07,190 they're seen everyday it hasn't affected 2833 02:07:12,340 --> 02:07:10,160 anything other than popular culture it 2834 02:07:15,240 --> 02:07:12,350 changes a person's direction in life 2835 02:07:17,860 --> 02:07:15,250 that's happened to a number of people 2836 02:07:19,780 --> 02:07:17,870 Captain Kirk in the last Star Trek movie 2837 02:07:21,720 --> 02:07:19,790 boy they got they got busted with their 2838 02:07:25,120 --> 02:07:21,730 parents down had to jump off a cliff 2839 02:07:27,100 --> 02:07:25,130 most people see UFO and they're really 2840 02:07:29,260 --> 02:07:27,110 interested in intrigue it doesn't change 2841 02:07:31,180 --> 02:07:29,270 their lives it's just a curious thing 2842 02:07:33,870 --> 02:07:31,190 that happened to them it's not something 2843 02:07:36,460 --> 02:07:33,880 they can place in any other context the 2844 02:07:39,190 --> 02:07:36,470 people who are permanently affected by 2845 02:07:40,239 --> 02:07:39,200 that experience are really a very small 2846 02:07:43,259 --> 02:07:40,249 percentage if you 2847 02:07:46,089 --> 02:07:43,269 host letters so in the scheme of things 2848 02:07:47,910 --> 02:07:46,099 ET can be fully aware of this and just 2849 02:07:51,819 --> 02:07:47,920 figure well the people who do see us 2850 02:07:53,950 --> 02:07:51,829 very few of their fellow travelers their 2851 02:07:54,790 --> 02:07:53,960 fellow citizens will believe them anyway 2852 02:07:57,189 --> 02:07:54,800 so who cares 2853 02:07:59,890 --> 02:07:57,199 I think the calculation again this is 2854 02:08:01,660 --> 02:07:59,900 all peer ranked speculation okay well 2855 02:08:03,700 --> 02:08:01,670 we're doing rank speculation ladies and 2856 02:08:05,979 --> 02:08:03,710 gentlemen we do that really well here we 2857 02:08:08,200 --> 02:08:05,989 are ranked speculators we haven't said 2858 02:08:10,479 --> 02:08:08,210 that rank though the calculation may be 2859 02:08:12,850 --> 02:08:10,489 that unless you know we land on the 2860 02:08:15,279 --> 02:08:12,860 White House lawn or crash on the White 2861 02:08:18,160 --> 02:08:15,289 House lawn you know we can do what we're 2862 02:08:20,290 --> 02:08:18,170 doing for maybe decades more and it's 2863 02:08:22,989 --> 02:08:20,300 not going to affect the civilization 2864 02:08:26,319 --> 02:08:22,999 were observing I believe myself my own 2865 02:08:28,689 --> 02:08:26,329 intuition is that sometime in the 21st 2866 02:08:31,479 --> 02:08:28,699 century with another generation of 2867 02:08:34,629 --> 02:08:31,489 scientists UFO sightings will finally 2868 02:08:36,399 --> 02:08:34,639 engage the interest of scientists 2869 02:08:40,419 --> 02:08:36,409 particularly astronomers and others 2870 02:08:42,669 --> 02:08:40,429 involved in exobiology who having failed 2871 02:08:46,089 --> 02:08:42,679 to detect alien civilizations player 2872 02:08:48,459 --> 02:08:46,099 radio telescope will turn around and say 2873 02:08:51,040 --> 02:08:48,469 well what about all these curious and 2874 02:08:53,229 --> 02:08:51,050 interesting spec you inciting made by 2875 02:08:55,450 --> 02:08:53,239 people all over the earth were for quite 2876 02:08:58,629 --> 02:08:55,460 a while now and something of that is 2877 02:09:01,930 --> 02:08:58,639 happening if you read Edward Ashe poles 2878 02:09:04,750 --> 02:09:01,940 new book whose title is gazing at the 2879 02:09:09,399 --> 02:09:04,760 moment but he says he's a brief science 2880 02:09:12,060 --> 02:09:09,409 journalist and he writes that oh here we 2881 02:09:14,649 --> 02:09:12,070 go book it's called signatures of life 2882 02:09:16,989 --> 02:09:14,659 science searches the universe it's an 2883 02:09:19,919 --> 02:09:16,999 animal respectable British journalist 2884 02:09:22,239 --> 02:09:19,929 who says that it's time now for 2885 02:09:24,129 --> 02:09:22,249 scientists interested in the question of 2886 02:09:28,270 --> 02:09:24,139 extraterrestrial life we'll start 2887 02:09:31,979 --> 02:09:28,280 looking at your words and he shows that 2888 02:09:34,930 --> 02:09:31,989 the UFO phenomena the sort of thing that 2889 02:09:37,779 --> 02:09:34,940 EXO biologically inclined astronomers 2890 02:09:41,410 --> 02:09:37,789 have been talking about and and it turns 2891 02:09:44,229 --> 02:09:41,420 out that if you dig deeply into the SETI 2892 02:09:47,020 --> 02:09:44,239 literature you will find that some 2893 02:09:49,479 --> 02:09:47,030 astronomers Emily respectable 2894 02:09:50,460 --> 02:09:49,489 astronomers have said something of the 2895 02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:50,470 same 2896 02:09:55,320 --> 02:09:52,690 that there may be evidence of 2897 02:09:58,080 --> 02:09:55,330 extraterrestrial visitors in our solar 2898 02:10:00,810 --> 02:09:58,090 system and maybe even in our atmosphere 2899 02:10:04,230 --> 02:10:00,820 and that this is a question that 2900 02:10:07,290 --> 02:10:04,240 scientists should take up and if this is 2901 02:10:08,820 --> 02:10:07,300 already starting to appear in maybe 2902 02:10:11,910 --> 02:10:08,830 there's hope the scientific literature 2903 02:10:13,590 --> 02:10:11,920 it's just a matter of time before you 2904 02:10:15,090 --> 02:10:13,600 know this becomes a larger theme and 2905 02:10:17,430 --> 02:10:15,100 people are scientists are actively 2906 02:10:19,260 --> 02:10:17,440 engaged I'll tell you what maybe there's 2907 02:10:21,240 --> 02:10:19,270 hope if we continue this discussion with 2908 02:10:29,880 --> 02:10:21,250 gene and Chris we're joined by Jerome 2909 02:10:32,340 --> 02:10:29,890 Clark you're in the powertest America's 2910 02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:32,350 number one source for independent talk 2911 02:10:39,600 --> 02:10:34,530 radio for over a decade 2912 02:10:42,030 --> 02:10:39,610 we are the gcn radio network graphic 2913 02:10:44,490 --> 02:10:42,040 converter is the image manipulation tool 2914 02:10:46,920 --> 02:10:44,500 for the rest of us it does not use any 2915 02:10:49,350 --> 02:10:46,930 database you get full control of all 2916 02:10:51,690 --> 02:10:49,360 your files want to view the images of a 2917 02:10:54,690 --> 02:10:51,700 folder drag it into graphic converter 2918 02:10:56,610 --> 02:10:54,700 and a powerful browser opens up to show 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Stanton 3018 02:14:53,610 --> 02:14:50,230 Friedman you are listening to the parrot 3019 02:15:03,440 --> 02:14:53,620 case the gold standard a paranormal 3020 02:15:05,550 --> 02:15:03,450 radio so maybe before we're gone 3021 02:15:08,160 --> 02:15:05,560 scientists will begin to embrace this 3022 02:15:09,720 --> 02:15:08,170 more or maybe you and I Jerry especially 3023 02:15:13,230 --> 02:15:09,730 not Chris because he's a young 3024 02:15:16,050 --> 02:15:13,240 whippersnapper maybe we will survive to 3025 02:15:18,570 --> 02:15:16,060 see this serious attitude towards UFOs 3026 02:15:20,640 --> 02:15:18,580 I'm afraid Jean that you and I will not 3027 02:15:24,510 --> 02:15:20,650 be around to see it I can't speak for 3028 02:15:26,310 --> 02:15:24,520 Chris but it will he will take time when 3029 02:15:29,160 --> 02:15:26,320 I said that I thought this would happen 3030 02:15:31,620 --> 02:15:29,170 I was really thinking about the latter 3031 02:15:35,640 --> 02:15:31,630 part of this century and we live that 3032 02:15:38,130 --> 02:15:35,650 long we're not good there's oh yeah I 3033 02:15:40,980 --> 02:15:38,140 think this will happen in time I mean 3034 02:15:42,750 --> 02:15:40,990 you know science always gets around to 3035 02:15:45,600 --> 02:15:42,760 dealing with questions it isn't always 3036 02:15:48,750 --> 02:15:45,610 there perhaps as promptly as it should 3037 02:15:51,360 --> 02:15:48,760 be but science ultimately works and it 3038 02:15:53,160 --> 02:15:51,370 does take up questions even even very 3039 02:15:56,360 --> 02:15:53,170 difficult ones and against much 3040 02:15:59,700 --> 02:15:56,370 resistance by the conservative part of 3041 02:16:02,520 --> 02:15:59,710 the science community but yeah pfl 3042 02:16:04,680 --> 02:16:02,530 scientists continue and SETI astronomers 3043 02:16:06,600 --> 02:16:04,690 don't find other evidence of 3044 02:16:08,900 --> 02:16:06,610 extraterrestrial life just by a process 3045 02:16:11,460 --> 02:16:08,910 of elimination they're going to have to 3046 02:16:13,980 --> 02:16:11,470 I still have a hard time believing that 3047 02:16:17,400 --> 02:16:13,990 they think that aliens are broadcasting 3048 02:16:21,120 --> 02:16:17,410 radio waves as some sort of indication 3049 02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:21,130 of their presence that to me has always 3050 02:16:24,840 --> 02:16:22,170 been 3051 02:16:30,360 --> 02:16:24,850 again another Bosley Hair Club for Men 3052 02:16:33,180 --> 02:16:30,370 hair scratch head scratcher Chris this 3053 02:16:35,610 --> 02:16:33,190 obsession with Bosley maybe we should 3054 02:16:37,290 --> 02:16:35,620 get them as sponsors there you go well 3055 02:16:40,860 --> 02:16:37,300 you go ahead and you volunteer eight 3056 02:16:42,600 --> 02:16:40,870 idea you volunteered there's more head 3057 02:16:46,760 --> 02:16:42,610 scratchers listening to this show then 3058 02:16:49,380 --> 02:16:46,770 listen to well maybe not rush limbaugh I 3059 02:16:50,340 --> 02:16:49,390 mean just take one look at Rush and you 3060 02:16:52,831 --> 02:16:50,350 can tell there's been a lot of 3061 02:16:55,140 --> 02:16:52,841 head-scratching going on I think 3062 02:16:57,300 --> 02:16:55,150 would digress into bad jokes and I get 3063 02:16:59,070 --> 02:16:57,310 letters and emails saying you know you 3064 02:17:00,570 --> 02:16:59,080 got to get a better sense of humor let 3065 02:17:04,201 --> 02:17:00,580 me let me continue on to another 3066 02:17:06,991 --> 02:17:04,211 question this one again Jerry is from a 3067 02:17:08,850 --> 02:17:07,001 burnt State and it's a good one 3068 02:17:10,680 --> 02:17:08,860 in your research have you found any 3069 02:17:13,170 --> 02:17:10,690 anomalous events that have some 3070 02:17:16,020 --> 02:17:13,180 predictability attached to them in terms 3071 02:17:18,900 --> 02:17:16,030 of location frequency duration or time 3072 02:17:21,440 --> 02:17:18,910 of their occurrence or would you 3073 02:17:24,241 --> 02:17:21,450 describe most anomalous events and I'm I 3074 02:17:28,500 --> 02:17:24,251 take it he's talking about UFO events as 3075 02:17:29,610 --> 02:17:28,510 rather unpredictable in all ways well 3076 02:17:32,250 --> 02:17:29,620 that is a good question 3077 02:17:34,320 --> 02:17:32,260 and I'm not sure that I have an answer 3078 02:17:37,590 --> 02:17:34,330 off the top of my head I mean we know of 3079 02:17:41,970 --> 02:17:37,600 course that their UFO wait and we know 3080 02:17:45,980 --> 02:17:41,980 that anomalous phenomena can appear in 3081 02:17:48,210 --> 02:17:45,990 some small place over a period of time 3082 02:17:52,860 --> 02:17:48,220 what does that amounts to predictability 3083 02:17:54,600 --> 02:17:52,870 I don't know I mean you know there have 3084 02:17:57,060 --> 02:17:54,610 always been attempts and commendable 3085 02:18:02,371 --> 02:17:57,070 ones to find patterns to UFO activity 3086 02:18:07,100 --> 02:18:02,381 and the no one has ever been able to 3087 02:18:11,041 --> 02:18:07,110 establish anything conclusively about 3088 02:18:14,791 --> 02:18:11,051 about how these things manifest it's 3089 02:18:17,911 --> 02:18:14,801 just you know it looks like just 3090 02:18:19,800 --> 02:18:17,921 something incredibly random but we don't 3091 02:18:21,810 --> 02:18:19,810 know I mean that that is an excellent 3092 02:18:25,140 --> 02:18:21,820 question and there's so much that falls 3093 02:18:26,880 --> 02:18:25,150 out from that question but unfortunately 3094 02:18:30,480 --> 02:18:26,890 I think it's just at this stage 3095 02:18:33,360 --> 02:18:30,490 unanswerable right and and generally if 3096 02:18:37,170 --> 02:18:33,370 you find a pattern what I found I found 3097 02:18:38,911 --> 02:18:37,180 a couple of patterns actually of what I 3098 02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:38,921 thought was some sort of predictability 3099 02:18:42,690 --> 02:18:42,010 of fact or element and as soon as I 3100 02:18:45,720 --> 02:18:42,700 found it 3101 02:18:47,701 --> 02:18:45,730 you know I the data you know the the 3102 02:18:50,430 --> 02:18:47,711 phenomenon supported the data to support 3103 02:18:52,741 --> 02:18:50,440 my conclusion but as soon as I opened my 3104 02:18:55,470 --> 02:18:52,751 mouth and said something about it 3105 02:19:01,420 --> 02:18:55,480 it went 180 degrees and did the exact 3106 02:19:07,040 --> 02:19:04,430 and that's why I you know I I'm 3107 02:19:09,520 --> 02:19:07,050 fascinated with the whole idea of that 3108 02:19:12,110 --> 02:19:09,530 liminal force within our collective 3109 02:19:13,970 --> 02:19:12,120 called the the trickster archetype I 3110 02:19:17,030 --> 02:19:13,980 find it just eminently you know the 3111 02:19:19,070 --> 02:19:17,040 infinitely fascinating and in that that 3112 02:19:21,460 --> 02:19:19,080 I think is a perfect illustration of 3113 02:19:23,300 --> 02:19:21,470 that there really is no predictability 3114 02:19:25,100 --> 02:19:23,310 except for the fact that it's 3115 02:19:27,350 --> 02:19:25,110 unpredictable that's that you can 3116 02:19:30,020 --> 02:19:27,360 predict that it's unpredictable so I 3117 02:19:32,810 --> 02:19:30,030 told you guys before about my experience 3118 02:19:36,010 --> 02:19:32,820 of encountering three times in the 3119 02:19:38,450 --> 02:19:36,020 course of one summer thirteen years ago 3120 02:19:42,860 --> 02:19:38,460 apparitional quadruped added account 3121 02:19:44,420 --> 02:19:42,870 like a ghostly dogs right right and what 3122 02:19:46,730 --> 02:19:44,430 struck me about that not only that it 3123 02:19:48,921 --> 02:19:46,740 was so completely unexpected that I 3124 02:19:51,381 --> 02:19:48,931 couldn't even process it I mean it took 3125 02:19:53,961 --> 02:19:51,391 me weeks to process what I had seen and 3126 02:19:56,030 --> 02:19:53,971 it didn't really make it him it didn't 3127 02:19:57,830 --> 02:19:56,040 really dawn on me until my wife was with 3128 02:20:01,520 --> 02:19:57,840 me and saw it the last time we were 3129 02:20:03,350 --> 02:20:01,530 together and but what struck me among 3130 02:20:05,740 --> 02:20:03,360 among the many reflections I made about 3131 02:20:08,900 --> 02:20:05,750 that experience was how incredibly 3132 02:20:12,560 --> 02:20:08,910 meaningless and motiveless it was there 3133 02:20:14,961 --> 02:20:12,570 was no larger lesson it it just happened 3134 02:20:19,131 --> 02:20:14,971 and that was all that it was it was just 3135 02:20:23,810 --> 02:20:19,141 an experience but no larger consequences 3136 02:20:24,560 --> 02:20:23,820 no larger moral no meaning it just 3137 02:20:26,990 --> 02:20:24,570 happened 3138 02:20:29,450 --> 02:20:27,000 and that that's I think one thing I've 3139 02:20:33,290 --> 02:20:29,460 carried away from that experience 3140 02:20:36,140 --> 02:20:33,300 it's just how random and meaningless it 3141 02:20:39,501 --> 02:20:36,150 appeared to be so when people speculate 3142 02:20:41,530 --> 02:20:39,511 about larger intentionality and so on I 3143 02:20:43,910 --> 02:20:41,540 have a hard time 3144 02:20:46,730 --> 02:20:43,920 squaring now my own experience I think 3145 02:20:50,180 --> 02:20:46,740 these things just happen in their own 3146 02:20:52,400 --> 02:20:50,190 way and they're just sort of random now 3147 02:20:56,180 --> 02:20:52,410 if there is I think there are patterns 3148 02:20:58,520 --> 02:20:56,190 in data concerning hardcore UFO 3149 02:21:01,910 --> 02:20:58,530 sightings we know they seem to operate 3150 02:21:04,280 --> 02:21:01,920 in some ways and not in others but the 3151 02:21:06,650 --> 02:21:04,290 high strangeness stuff is just it could 3152 02:21:08,751 --> 02:21:06,660 happen to anybody at any time yes and it 3153 02:21:10,570 --> 02:21:08,761 may even sometimes happen to us and 3154 02:21:12,921 --> 02:21:10,580 because we're not expecting it our 3155 02:21:13,670 --> 02:21:12,931 mindset is against it we don't think 3156 02:21:15,830 --> 02:21:13,680 these things 3157 02:21:18,979 --> 02:21:15,840 happen that what they do happen we 3158 02:21:22,040 --> 02:21:18,989 rationalize them away and forget ah do 3159 02:21:23,780 --> 02:21:22,050 you saying then Jerry that a lot of us 3160 02:21:26,150 --> 02:21:23,790 are having experiences that we just kind 3161 02:21:29,000 --> 02:21:26,160 of compartmentalize and we put in the 3162 02:21:29,860 --> 02:21:29,010 back burner and we don't pay attention 3163 02:21:34,389 --> 02:21:29,870 to those things 3164 02:21:37,460 --> 02:21:34,399 you know I I've had experiences that 3165 02:21:40,030 --> 02:21:37,470 only in retrospect seem really strange 3166 02:21:43,099 --> 02:21:40,040 all and and but they were trivial 3167 02:21:44,900 --> 02:21:43,109 weren't like all of a sudden there's 3168 02:21:46,490 --> 02:21:44,910 some humanoid standing in front of you 3169 02:21:48,530 --> 02:21:46,500 or something like that they were they 3170 02:21:51,290 --> 02:21:48,540 were just quotidian experience it's just 3171 02:21:53,750 --> 02:21:51,300 day-to-day things you know like you drop 3172 02:21:56,780 --> 02:21:53,760 something on the floor and you hear it 3173 02:21:58,280 --> 02:21:56,790 hit the floor and you can't find it well 3174 02:22:02,050 --> 02:21:58,290 you know what if that isn't just a 3175 02:22:04,610 --> 02:22:02,060 random thing but some kind of you know 3176 02:22:07,280 --> 02:22:04,620 low-level kind of politics thing I 3177 02:22:08,900 --> 02:22:07,290 hadn't experienced one time where I'm 3178 02:22:10,790 --> 02:22:08,910 sitting here in my office and I got 3179 02:22:14,450 --> 02:22:10,800 about a gazillion books and about as 3180 02:22:16,040 --> 02:22:14,460 many CDs biddies arranged no political 3181 02:22:19,150 --> 02:22:16,050 order otherwise I could never find them 3182 02:22:25,040 --> 02:22:19,160 well one time I decided I wanted to hear 3183 02:22:27,349 --> 02:22:25,050 this record by this very vocal so I want 3184 02:22:29,030 --> 02:22:27,359 to get the record it wasn't there and 3185 02:22:33,200 --> 02:22:29,040 neither were the other albums by the 3186 02:22:35,030 --> 02:22:33,210 same group and I was really just annoyed 3187 02:22:37,099 --> 02:22:35,040 because I thought you know these are not 3188 02:22:40,610 --> 02:22:37,109 American records it took some trouble to 3189 02:22:41,809 --> 02:22:40,620 get them very records in the UK and so I 3190 02:22:45,219 --> 02:22:41,819 thought well they must have fallen off 3191 02:22:48,320 --> 02:22:45,229 the shelf I spent the next two hours 3192 02:22:51,139 --> 02:22:48,330 trying to find it and finally at the end 3193 02:22:52,610 --> 02:22:51,149 of this I thought you know I'm gonna 3194 02:22:56,719 --> 02:22:52,620 worry about this they'll show up again 3195 02:23:00,620 --> 02:22:56,729 and about two days later it was digging 3196 02:23:02,540 --> 02:23:00,630 through through a drawer where I have 3197 02:23:04,429 --> 02:23:02,550 certain inconsequential stuff but 3198 02:23:06,590 --> 02:23:04,439 everyone's like you use for it so I 3199 02:23:08,300 --> 02:23:06,600 needed something in that drawer I went 3200 02:23:10,639 --> 02:23:08,310 to that drawer open up the door and 3201 02:23:13,880 --> 02:23:10,649 there was a plastic bag with something 3202 02:23:15,650 --> 02:23:13,890 in it in that drawer and I thought what 3203 02:23:17,540 --> 02:23:15,660 what I don't remember putting a plastic 3204 02:23:19,370 --> 02:23:17,550 bag with something in up in this drawer 3205 02:23:22,160 --> 02:23:19,380 this isn't what I would have done put 3206 02:23:23,900 --> 02:23:22,170 something like that's I took a plastic 3207 02:23:27,650 --> 02:23:23,910 bag and I felt it and I knew instantly 3208 02:23:30,980 --> 02:23:27,660 that were CDs in it and I owned it out 3209 02:23:32,720 --> 02:23:30,990 then it was the missing CDs now the only 3210 02:23:35,810 --> 02:23:32,730 possible there are two possibilities 3211 02:23:38,150 --> 02:23:35,820 here somebody broke into the house 3212 02:23:40,070 --> 02:23:38,160 for no other reason this is smash some 3213 02:23:43,540 --> 02:23:40,080 of my CDs and put them in a plastic bag 3214 02:23:47,631 --> 02:23:43,550 and put them in a drawer or my wife and 3215 02:23:49,940 --> 02:23:47,641 for no known reason I reject either of 3216 02:23:52,011 --> 02:23:49,950 those your wife is not the kind of 3217 02:23:55,610 --> 02:23:52,021 person who'd play tricks on your life is 3218 02:23:58,430 --> 02:23:55,620 not a practical joker and you know 3219 02:24:02,950 --> 02:23:58,440 there's just no reasonable explanation 3220 02:24:05,480 --> 02:24:02,960 for this it's not a huge dramatic event 3221 02:24:06,261 --> 02:24:05,490 it's just something that doesn't have an 3222 02:24:09,170 --> 02:24:06,271 explanation 3223 02:24:11,480 --> 02:24:09,180 maybe you absent-mindedly put it there 3224 02:24:13,940 --> 02:24:11,490 but then that would opens up a whole can 3225 02:24:16,160 --> 02:24:13,950 of worms we have Jerome Clark who never 3226 02:24:18,740 --> 02:24:16,170 opens up cans of worms and B a can of 3227 02:24:20,990 --> 02:24:18,750 sardines with gene and Chris you're in 3228 02:24:28,389 --> 02:24:21,000 the para cast 3229 02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:31,090 are you tired of searching for great 3230 02:24:39,639 --> 02:24:34,489 talk radio more important search no more 3231 02:24:42,099 --> 02:24:39,649 we are the gcn radio network if you want 3232 02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:42,109 to get your website online and you need 3233 02:24:46,929 --> 02:24:45,050 reliable service first-class service at 3234 02:24:48,909 --> 02:24:46,939 the lowest possible price there's only 3235 02:24:51,399 --> 02:24:48,919 one place to go well dream house has a 3236 02:24:53,939 --> 02:24:51,409 special promotion with our show where 3237 02:24:57,219 --> 02:24:53,949 they'll are for you unlimited disk space 3238 02:25:00,429 --> 02:24:57,229 unlimited bandwidth 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classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and 3253 02:25:35,109 --> 02:25:32,359 the coming of the protectors find out 3254 02:25:39,580 --> 02:25:35,119 more at Rocko it's calm that's Rockets 3255 02:25:42,099 --> 02:25:39,590 are Ock oids calm what if you had a 3256 02:25:44,830 --> 02:25:42,109 witness everywhere you drive now you can 3257 02:25:46,840 --> 02:25:44,840 with video dashcam calm from truckers to 3258 02:25:48,130 --> 02:25:46,850 motorcyclists the handy video dashcam 3259 02:25:50,769 --> 02:25:48,140 can be used for insurance claims 3260 02:25:53,019 --> 02:25:50,779 accidents police encounters road rage or 3261 02:25:54,969 --> 02:25:53,029 natural disasters has instant screen 3262 02:25:56,949 --> 02:25:54,979 playback an optional night vision get 3263 02:25:59,319 --> 02:25:56,959 the best quality affordable HD dash 3264 02:26:01,960 --> 02:25:59,329 cameras available at video - Capcom 3265 02:26:04,120 --> 02:26:01,970 that's video dashcam calm or call eight 3266 02:26:06,670 --> 02:26:04,130 five five eight five five two zero two 3267 02:26:10,779 --> 02:26:06,680 two always have a witness with video 3268 02:26:12,580 --> 02:26:10,789 dashcam B this is an emergency essential 3269 02:26:14,170 --> 02:26:12,590 sale this month only at emergency 3270 02:26:15,909 --> 02:26:14,180 essentials and get 41 percent off 3271 02:26:17,920 --> 02:26:15,919 freeze-dried chicken with a 25 year 3272 02:26:18,699 --> 02:26:17,930 shelf life for only $24.99 while 3273 02:26:20,769 --> 02:26:18,709 supplies last 3274 02:26:23,109 --> 02:26:20,779 during our October sale 50 pan gallon 3275 02:26:25,840 --> 02:26:23,119 water barrels were only 70 to 99 our 12 3276 02:26:27,939 --> 02:26:25,850 can bacon combo valued at over $160 is 3277 02:26:29,889 --> 02:26:27,949 now only 109 ninety-nine that's 32 3278 02:26:33,159 --> 02:26:29,899 percent off call emergency essentials at 3279 02:26:35,679 --> 02:26:33,169 800 999 1863 today or visit be prepared 3280 02:26:39,600 --> 02:26:35,689 calm the choice is clear be unprepared 3281 02:26:44,261 --> 02:26:42,400 if you of the IRS back taxes listen 3282 02:26:45,820 --> 02:26:44,271 carefully sweeping changes to IRS 3283 02:26:47,770 --> 02:26:45,830 policies will help more people than ever 3284 02:26:50,350 --> 02:26:47,780 eliminate their tax debts once and for 3285 02:26:52,060 --> 02:26:50,360 all and now I can help you reduce or 3286 02:26:54,670 --> 02:26:52,070 eliminate your tax debts and end your 3287 02:26:56,200 --> 02:26:54,680 tax nightmare hi I'm Dan pilla I've 3288 02:26:57,580 --> 02:26:56,210 helped thousands of people reduce and 3289 02:26:59,140 --> 02:26:57,590 eliminate tax debts they couldn't pay 3290 02:27:01,150 --> 02:26:59,150 and after more than 30 years of 3291 02:27:02,560 --> 02:27:01,160 experience dealing with the IRS I can 3292 02:27:04,600 --> 02:27:02,570 tell you there's no such thing as a 3293 02:27:06,610 --> 02:27:04,610 hopeless tax case and with the IRS as 3294 02:27:08,380 --> 02:27:06,620 new policies it's easier than ever to 3295 02:27:08,801 --> 02:27:08,390 put your tax debt behind you once and 3296 02:27:11,051 --> 02:27:08,811 for all 3297 02:27:12,820 --> 02:27:11,061 call now at eight hundred three four six 3298 02:27:14,830 --> 02:27:12,830 six eight to nine to learn how I can 3299 02:27:16,870 --> 02:27:14,840 help you you know your IRS debt will not 3300 02:27:19,720 --> 02:27:16,880 go away by itself but you don't have to 3301 02:27:21,970 --> 02:27:19,730 live in fear anymore call 803 four six 3302 02:27:23,470 --> 02:27:21,980 six eight two nine learn how I can help 3303 02:27:25,390 --> 02:27:23,480 you eliminate wage and Bank levies 3304 02:27:27,070 --> 02:27:25,400 release tax liens and negotiate a 3305 02:27:29,230 --> 02:27:27,080 settlement with the IRS that will put 3306 02:27:33,130 --> 02:27:29,240 your tax nightmare behind you forever 3307 02:27:40,150 --> 02:27:33,140 call 834 no tax or go to tax help 3308 02:27:42,160 --> 02:27:40,160 online.com that's tax help online.com hi 3309 02:27:44,860 --> 02:27:42,170 my name is Debray suffering from 3310 02:27:47,290 --> 02:27:44,870 migraines having botox injections in my 3311 02:27:48,761 --> 02:27:47,300 head and neck to alleviate pain costing 3312 02:27:51,430 --> 02:27:48,771 fifteen hundred dollars out of my pocket 3313 02:27:53,290 --> 02:27:51,440 I discovered doctor Ortman and gentle 3314 02:27:55,600 --> 02:27:53,300 touch chiropractic adjustment called 3315 02:27:57,610 --> 02:27:55,610 Nuka I'm migraine free since my first 3316 02:27:59,801 --> 02:27:57,620 adjustments thanks for giving me my life 3317 02:28:02,051 --> 02:27:59,811 back doctor Ortman I wish they prescribe 3318 02:28:04,000 --> 02:28:02,061 you instead of Botox thanks to Ray 3319 02:28:05,920 --> 02:28:04,010 putting the bones back in place is only 3320 02:28:08,051 --> 02:28:05,930 half of the solution we design a 3321 02:28:08,830 --> 02:28:08,061 nutritional supplement program the body 3322 02:28:11,020 --> 02:28:08,840 can handle 3323 02:28:13,840 --> 02:28:11,030 I actually absorb providing nutrients 3324 02:28:15,430 --> 02:28:13,850 targeting the problem area between Nuka 3325 02:28:17,170 --> 02:28:15,440 and nutrition we will have you on the 3326 02:28:19,511 --> 02:28:17,180 road to a faster and more permanent 3327 02:28:24,520 --> 02:28:19,521 recovery look us up on the web at dr. 3328 02:28:26,020 --> 02:28:24,530 Wortman comm or call 952 303 91 24 let 3329 02:28:28,060 --> 02:28:26,030 us help you feel better faster 3330 02:28:30,700 --> 02:28:28,070 wellspring spinal care at nine five two 3331 02:28:32,980 --> 02:28:30,710 three oh three ninety one twenty four 3332 02:28:35,650 --> 02:28:32,990 again that's nine five two three oh 3333 02:28:40,000 --> 02:28:35,660 three ninety one twenty four or on the 3334 02:28:44,210 --> 02:28:40,010 web at dr. ort ma n com 3335 02:28:47,489 --> 02:28:44,220 [Music] 3336 02:28:49,050 --> 02:28:47,499 this is a skirt 70 author of us on the 3337 02:28:54,750 --> 02:28:49,060 street and you're listening to the 3338 02:28:57,750 --> 02:28:54,760 podcast or maybe the para cast is here 3339 02:28:59,099 --> 02:28:57,760 to open up cans of worms to see what 3340 02:29:01,139 --> 02:28:59,109 really crawls out of them 3341 02:29:03,269 --> 02:29:01,149 we have Jerome Clarke joining us for one 3342 02:29:06,029 --> 02:29:03,279 more segment with gene and Chris Chris 3343 02:29:08,130 --> 02:29:06,039 any more questions left in the till yeah 3344 02:29:11,250 --> 02:29:08,140 here's another good one from burnt State 3345 02:29:13,260 --> 02:29:11,260 he notes that you have often said the 3346 02:29:15,300 --> 02:29:13,270 idea of a ship from an alien planet 3347 02:29:17,729 --> 02:29:15,310 crashing on earth is something that you 3348 02:29:20,219 --> 02:29:17,739 could never hide from history and he 3349 02:29:23,279 --> 02:29:20,229 says I take this to mean you believe 3350 02:29:25,019 --> 02:29:23,289 that et has never crashed here well 3351 02:29:27,540 --> 02:29:25,029 aside from the infallibility of the 3352 02:29:29,369 --> 02:29:27,550 phenomenon what other aspects of this 3353 02:29:33,349 --> 02:29:29,379 phenomenon do you feel our aspects that 3354 02:29:36,119 --> 02:29:33,359 could never be hidden from history well 3355 02:29:37,769 --> 02:29:36,129 recently challenging this Edward has 3356 02:29:41,880 --> 02:29:37,779 told ma by the way that I just mentioned 3357 02:29:44,699 --> 02:29:41,890 was that if there was a spacecraft 3358 02:29:47,580 --> 02:29:44,709 crashed the discoveries from that 3359 02:29:49,889 --> 02:29:47,590 reverse engineering went out into the 3360 02:29:52,619 --> 02:29:49,899 government and into private industry and 3361 02:29:55,590 --> 02:29:52,629 so on that there would you know there 3362 02:29:57,420 --> 02:29:55,600 would be suddenly technological 3363 02:30:00,059 --> 02:29:57,430 developments and otherwise you know 3364 02:30:01,590 --> 02:30:00,069 weren't traceable if that just seemed 3365 02:30:04,019 --> 02:30:01,600 extraordinary is it they came out of 3366 02:30:08,699 --> 02:30:04,029 nowhere and there haven't been any of 3367 02:30:11,670 --> 02:30:08,709 those but in Asheville's book signatures 3368 02:30:14,069 --> 02:30:11,680 of life he's not directly addressing me 3369 02:30:16,619 --> 02:30:14,079 but he does say somewhere in the book 3370 02:30:19,170 --> 02:30:16,629 that if something like what has all 3371 02:30:20,489 --> 02:30:19,180 happened and and he's not saying it did 3372 02:30:24,300 --> 02:30:20,499 but he's just speculating 3373 02:30:27,630 --> 02:30:24,310 he said that reverse engineering would 3374 02:30:30,659 --> 02:30:27,640 be impossible because it would be some 3375 02:30:32,340 --> 02:30:30,669 level of technology simply beyond our 3376 02:30:34,170 --> 02:30:32,350 present state of knowledge and 3377 02:30:36,659 --> 02:30:34,180 understanding that there wouldn't be 3378 02:30:38,639 --> 02:30:36,669 anything you could do with it so maybe I 3379 02:30:41,729 --> 02:30:38,649 was wrong that maybe there could have 3380 02:30:43,559 --> 02:30:41,739 been a Roswell incident and it just 3381 02:30:45,540 --> 02:30:43,569 couldn't be reversed engineered and 3382 02:30:48,899 --> 02:30:45,550 that's why we don't see any evidence of 3383 02:30:52,319 --> 02:30:48,909 it in subsequent history subsequent you 3384 02:30:55,040 --> 02:30:52,329 know policy technology you know whatever 3385 02:30:57,980 --> 02:30:55,050 so I don't know I mean maybe that 3386 02:30:59,870 --> 02:30:57,990 isn't a good argument so it's therefore 3387 02:31:01,309 --> 02:30:59,880 secretive their way somewhere and we 3388 02:31:04,219 --> 02:31:01,319 don't know what to do with it or maybe 3389 02:31:07,580 --> 02:31:04,229 as as catching dust at warehouse 13 or 3390 02:31:09,800 --> 02:31:07,590 something you know that's possible you 3391 02:31:11,690 --> 02:31:09,810 know I my argument that that we would 3392 02:31:13,700 --> 02:31:11,700 have learned something from it and we 3393 02:31:16,760 --> 02:31:13,710 would see evidence of that knowledge may 3394 02:31:19,130 --> 02:31:16,770 be in invalid arguments to argue against 3395 02:31:21,110 --> 02:31:19,140 the reality of Roswell opinion if you 3396 02:31:23,389 --> 02:31:21,120 want to go there but that may not be a 3397 02:31:27,679 --> 02:31:23,399 good argument so I may have been wrong 3398 02:31:28,880 --> 02:31:27,689 as incredible as that may see it happens 3399 02:31:32,090 --> 02:31:28,890 to all best of us 3400 02:31:33,860 --> 02:31:32,100 Jerry but okay no I can see where the 3401 02:31:35,210 --> 02:31:33,870 point of view is that we have it sitting 3402 02:31:38,090 --> 02:31:35,220 there and we haven't figured out what's 3403 02:31:40,639 --> 02:31:38,100 going on with that but what about the 3404 02:31:42,800 --> 02:31:40,649 alien bodies if there were alien bodies 3405 02:31:45,710 --> 02:31:42,810 wouldn't we know something about alien 3406 02:31:47,929 --> 02:31:45,720 physiology at least well i presumably 3407 02:31:52,849 --> 02:31:47,939 yes but you and i don't know i think 3408 02:31:54,320 --> 02:31:52,859 about well they're just not telling us 3409 02:31:57,530 --> 02:31:54,330 and it certainly wouldn't be found in 3410 02:32:00,309 --> 02:31:57,540 annek in sedona arizona right well 3411 02:32:03,650 --> 02:32:00,319 unless they were really kind of peta 3412 02:32:07,309 --> 02:32:03,660 double thinking yes or something hope we 3413 02:32:17,090 --> 02:32:07,319 put in an attic in sedona some wiseacre 3414 02:32:19,309 --> 02:32:17,100 will say oh it's an attic in Sedona of 3415 02:32:21,679 --> 02:32:19,319 course we're now insulting anybody who 3416 02:32:24,020 --> 02:32:21,689 has an attic in Sedona and might have 3417 02:32:26,920 --> 02:32:24,030 some interesting things there Chris well 3418 02:32:29,660 --> 02:32:26,930 I lived in Sedona for five years and I 3419 02:32:32,840 --> 02:32:29,670 can assure you that there are probably 3420 02:32:35,330 --> 02:32:32,850 things secret away there that the gist I 3421 02:32:41,690 --> 02:32:35,340 hope they don't ever see the light of 3422 02:32:44,750 --> 02:32:41,700 day any more questions Chris before we 3423 02:32:47,270 --> 02:32:44,760 leave well that's it for the question 3424 02:32:50,030 --> 02:32:47,280 Bank we we got our thread up a little 3425 02:32:52,070 --> 02:32:50,040 bit late but thank you everybody for 3426 02:32:55,250 --> 02:32:52,080 putting in your questions and don't 3427 02:32:57,530 --> 02:32:55,260 forget for future shows forum dr. Peric 3428 02:33:00,290 --> 02:32:57,540 ascom is where you put your questions in 3429 02:33:03,110 --> 02:33:00,300 for us to ask or our guests and and 3430 02:33:04,730 --> 02:33:03,120 jerry i want to say it's it's really a 3431 02:33:07,760 --> 02:33:04,740 pleasure to have you on the show i know 3432 02:33:08,290 --> 02:33:07,770 you don't do many shows and just to have 3433 02:33:12,760 --> 02:33:08,300 your 3434 02:33:15,520 --> 02:33:12,770 of experience is is a real treat for me 3435 02:33:17,580 --> 02:33:15,530 personally and I want to just let 3436 02:33:20,290 --> 02:33:17,590 everybody know that your work the 3437 02:33:23,590 --> 02:33:20,300 multi-volume UFO encyclopedia is a 3438 02:33:26,440 --> 02:33:23,600 must-have for any serious researcher 3439 02:33:28,179 --> 02:33:26,450 investigator or you know someone that's 3440 02:33:29,860 --> 02:33:28,189 interested in this subject matter I mean 3441 02:33:32,800 --> 02:33:29,870 the amount of work that went into that 3442 02:33:35,170 --> 02:33:32,810 book pre-internet is just is staggering 3443 02:33:37,420 --> 02:33:35,180 and I'm you know my hats off to you 3444 02:33:39,610 --> 02:33:37,430 you're you're one of our real jewels in 3445 02:33:43,300 --> 02:33:39,620 this in this you falah djegal world in 3446 02:33:45,450 --> 02:33:43,310 relman and you know i just support your 3447 02:33:47,980 --> 02:33:45,460 efforts all the way up and down the line 3448 02:33:49,780 --> 02:33:47,990 well thank you very much and i always 3449 02:33:52,300 --> 02:33:49,790 enjoy doing the show cuz you guys are 3450 02:33:54,910 --> 02:33:52,310 smart you ask good questions so you keep 3451 02:33:57,700 --> 02:33:54,920 me on my toes and we're here for to kind 3452 02:33:58,990 --> 02:33:57,710 of upset the applecart and keep things 3453 02:34:00,460 --> 02:33:59,000 going but where do you go from here 3454 02:34:05,110 --> 02:34:00,470 you've got some new books under 3455 02:34:08,650 --> 02:34:05,120 construction what possibly I just may 3456 02:34:10,540 --> 02:34:08,660 have kind of well maybe dry I haven't 3457 02:34:13,120 --> 02:34:10,550 come up with a new book ID and a couple 3458 02:34:14,740 --> 02:34:13,130 of years and I'm just parting around 3459 02:34:16,599 --> 02:34:14,750 pursuing other interests but I'll 3460 02:34:20,380 --> 02:34:16,609 probably find my way back to another 3461 02:34:23,139 --> 02:34:20,390 book one of these days if you were just 3462 02:34:26,469 --> 02:34:23,149 hypothetically going to do another book 3463 02:34:28,360 --> 02:34:26,479 what interests you now what really 3464 02:34:31,420 --> 02:34:28,370 sparks your interest when we get into 3465 02:34:33,309 --> 02:34:31,430 these kinds of subject matter well two 3466 02:34:35,020 --> 02:34:33,319 things someone's is exploring the idea 3467 02:34:36,880 --> 02:34:35,030 of experience anomalies and greater 3468 02:34:39,309 --> 02:34:36,890 depth and the other one is historical 3469 02:34:40,750 --> 02:34:39,319 for Keanu which has been opened up to us 3470 02:34:43,450 --> 02:34:40,760 because we have access to legal 3471 02:34:46,090 --> 02:34:43,460 newspaper archives and other sources now 3472 02:34:49,150 --> 02:34:46,100 online both things that would interest 3473 02:34:51,820 --> 02:34:49,160 me the most do we see stuff like that 3474 02:34:55,660 --> 02:34:51,830 happening now you know it all started 3475 02:34:58,210 --> 02:34:55,670 you know with four I'm sure you Jean and 3476 02:35:03,010 --> 02:34:58,220 then probably you Kris reading fort yeah 3477 02:35:04,990 --> 02:35:03,020 it's like a circle it's closing now the 3478 02:35:06,849 --> 02:35:05,000 torte in our Twilight Jean I'm not 3479 02:35:10,179 --> 02:35:06,859 talking to Chris here you know the 3480 02:35:13,450 --> 02:35:10,189 old-fashioned 14 phenomena our justice 3481 02:35:16,210 --> 02:35:13,460 interesting to me now as they were then 3482 02:35:18,940 --> 02:35:16,220 except that I have a much more informed 3483 02:35:21,190 --> 02:35:18,950 and adult perspective on are we still 3484 02:35:23,490 --> 02:35:21,200 seeing reports of frogs falling from the 3485 02:35:29,859 --> 02:35:27,910 constantly you know place monsters all 3486 02:35:33,099 --> 02:35:29,869 those things you know lights in the sky 3487 02:35:35,710 --> 02:35:33,109 those kind of eternal I love all that 3488 02:35:38,019 --> 02:35:35,720 stuff and I you know I love going to the 3489 02:35:41,559 --> 02:35:38,029 anomalous every day and tuning in on 3490 02:35:44,950 --> 02:35:41,569 Patrick wheeshes latest list of head 3491 02:35:46,510 --> 02:35:44,960 scratchers and and it gene it's always 3492 02:35:49,510 --> 02:35:46,520 going on yeah I don't think it'll ever 3493 02:35:53,290 --> 02:35:49,520 stop it actually picks up in intensity I 3494 02:35:55,450 --> 02:35:53,300 think it is certain time periods there's 3495 02:35:56,950 --> 02:35:55,460 a flurry of just inexplicable events 3496 02:35:58,599 --> 02:35:56,960 that that are reported 3497 02:36:01,660 --> 02:35:58,609 I think now the internet we're gonna 3498 02:36:03,849 --> 02:36:01,670 hear more about these types of 3499 02:36:06,670 --> 02:36:03,859 inexplicable events you know in a more 3500 02:36:10,330 --> 02:36:06,680 timely fashion and injury just for your 3501 02:36:13,660 --> 02:36:10,340 own information I'm finishing up a a an 3502 02:36:16,840 --> 02:36:13,670 examination of humans relationship with 3503 02:36:18,639 --> 02:36:16,850 livestock cattle specifically and it's a 3504 02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:18,649 case history of the unexplained 3505 02:36:23,679 --> 02:36:20,810 livestock death phenomenon which I know 3506 02:36:25,389 --> 02:36:23,689 you've been a little bit gonna take a 3507 02:36:29,410 --> 02:36:25,399 lot for you to think that there's really 3508 02:36:30,880 --> 02:36:29,420 something to that whole no I believe if 3509 02:36:32,469 --> 02:36:30,890 you're talk about cattle mutilations 3510 02:36:33,700 --> 02:36:32,479 oh yeah I mean I believe that there are 3511 02:36:36,309 --> 02:36:33,710 some of those who are genuinely 3512 02:36:38,500 --> 02:36:36,319 anomalous I mean I think that you know 3513 02:36:45,569 --> 02:36:38,510 like a lot of things you know get 3514 02:36:50,500 --> 02:36:48,729 well it's like UFOs I mean 90% of UFO 3515 02:36:53,319 --> 02:36:50,510 sightings and that's being generous I 3516 02:36:55,210 --> 02:36:53,329 think or very easily explained the same 3517 02:36:58,510 --> 02:36:55,220 holds true for the livestock that 3518 02:37:01,149 --> 02:36:58,520 phenomenon unexplained livestock death I 3519 02:37:02,649 --> 02:37:01,159 should say I I'd be interested to to get 3520 02:37:05,349 --> 02:37:02,659 your feedback and I'd love to send you a 3521 02:37:08,979 --> 02:37:05,359 copy of the book for for your opinion on 3522 02:37:11,830 --> 02:37:08,989 it once it's I'm just now literally 3523 02:37:14,139 --> 02:37:11,840 finishing it up this week and it's going 3524 02:37:15,849 --> 02:37:14,149 to the editor and I'd really love to get 3525 02:37:19,599 --> 02:37:15,859 your feedback on it you are mentioned in 3526 02:37:22,769 --> 02:37:19,609 there you and John keel your 3527 02:37:25,300 --> 02:37:22,779 admonishment of Appeal for his his 3528 02:37:27,760 --> 02:37:25,310 over-the-top statements about historical 3529 02:37:30,160 --> 02:37:27,770 cases I found it very fascinating also 3530 02:37:33,580 --> 02:37:30,170 your investigation into the Alexander 3531 02:37:34,900 --> 02:37:33,590 Hamilton claim and from 1897 I do I do 3532 02:37:36,551 --> 02:37:34,910 visit that 3533 02:37:39,551 --> 02:37:36,561 as well and I can't wait to get your 3534 02:37:42,850 --> 02:37:39,561 feedback on it is that it what a 3535 02:37:46,150 --> 02:37:42,860 pleasant session the time has gone by so 3536 02:37:48,011 --> 02:37:46,160 fast Jerry Clark can you tell us whether 3537 02:37:53,430 --> 02:37:48,021 you have an online presence if we want 3538 02:37:57,280 --> 02:37:53,440 to get a hold of you well not really I 3539 02:38:00,190 --> 02:37:57,290 keep my head low and I don't have 3540 02:38:02,801 --> 02:38:00,200 website or any of that stuff I just I'm 3541 02:38:06,490 --> 02:38:02,811 not interested enough in Tooting my own 3542 02:38:09,610 --> 02:38:06,500 horn but I just have an aversion to that 3543 02:38:11,440 --> 02:38:09,620 sort of thing I'm reachable by email yes 3544 02:38:14,440 --> 02:38:11,450 if you need to find him right to us and 3545 02:38:16,420 --> 02:38:14,450 I'll forward your messages Chris O'Brien 3546 02:38:19,210 --> 02:38:16,430 of course has his own site called our 3547 02:38:21,940 --> 02:38:19,220 strange planet com because it's a 3548 02:38:23,051 --> 02:38:21,950 strange planet our strange planet calm 3549 02:38:26,801 --> 02:38:23,061 and he's got that book coming out 3550 02:38:28,390 --> 02:38:26,811 shortly called stalking the herd you can 3551 02:38:31,120 --> 02:38:28,400 find us on Twitter where we're known as 3552 02:38:34,180 --> 02:38:31,130 tech night owl we're tech night owl on 3553 02:38:37,030 --> 02:38:34,190 Twitter there are also to power cast fan 3554 02:38:38,500 --> 02:38:37,040 clubs on Facebook under my account and 3555 02:38:40,660 --> 02:38:38,510 someday we'll figure out how to make 3556 02:38:43,660 --> 02:38:40,670 them one but of course Facebook never 3557 02:38:45,100 --> 02:38:43,670 makes that easy do they Jerry Clark 3558 02:38:47,650 --> 02:38:45,110 thanks for joining us this week on the 3559 02:38:52,790 --> 02:38:47,660 power cast thank you for having me than 3560 02:38:59,340 --> 02:38:55,819 [Music] 3561 02:39:02,219 --> 02:38:59,350 the para cast featuring gene Steinberg 3562 02:39:05,239 --> 02:39:02,229 and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted 3563 02:39:08,939 --> 02:39:05,249 presentation of making the impossible